[sclamb]

I remember a while back when I thought I had reached the end of the road with my O2s and 007t amp. And then I started reading threads here and, lo and behold, I am now looking at the next stage of audio nirvana and an amp upgrade.

I have boiled the options down to the KGSS or the Egmont Signature. I must say that Justin and Rudi have been exemplary in their customer service. They have answered my questions patiently and openly and have been extremely helpful to me. I just wish I could buy both amps and give them both my business.

I have organised the KGSS (standard chassis) with silver wiring, XLR loop out and Always-On bias supply. The Siganture would have XLR input, XLR loop out and standard tubes (on Rudi's advice given my mix of musical tastes).

The Signature is 3,000 Euro, the KGSS $2,100 dollars (both including shipping to the UK), so the Egmont is about 80% more expensive in UK sterling. An advantage to the Signature is no import tax/duty and easier to send back for repair/service than sending the KGSS to the States.

I think I am sure which way I want to go, but just wanted to have a final check with you guys to see what your preference might be based upon your experiences.

Any input gratefully received.

Simon

 

[Wmcmanus]

Simon, as far as I know, I'm the only Head-Fi'er who presently owns an Egmont Signature (it was originally built for Nik, who later sold it to me). It's on loan at the moment to immtbiker, and he's listened to it quite a bit with the Omega II's so I'm sure he'll have a perspective on it as well.

First, I've never directly compared the Egmont to the KGSS, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I have heard several different KGSS amps at various meets and have never been overly impressed by them other than the one that Canman had at a NY meet a couple of years ago. For the most part, what is lacking with the KGSS models I've heard is the sense of warmth and musicality that the Egmont provides (and to a lessor extent, the Stax 007t). Granted, this is not a well formulated opinion, and I couldn't even tell you who the amp builders were or what parts were used (I've now heard a couple of KGSS amps in NY, another one in California, and another one in Florida). In all cases other then with Canman's amp, I felt the presentation was less than ideal with the Omega II's which tend already to be "matter of fact" in their presentation. By this, I mean that the Omega II's are fine instruments and give you gobs of details but are not as emotionally involving as say, the HE90 or R10. They often come across as being rather clinical and the KGSS seems to emphasize this quality whereas the Egmont Signature tones it down, which helps to take the edge off of the high notes without really sacrificing speed or accuracy.

Again, these are just general impressions, and I hope they're not unfair, given that I've never done any direct A/B testing between the two amps. It could also have a lot to do with my own musical preferences. I tend to be much more at home with (and even enchanted by) warm, gooey, tubey sounding amps than those that might be marginally more precise but not as involving on an emotional level. Some call it a slight "euphoric" coloration, as with the R10's, and I like this sort of thing. When it comes to the Omega II's, what I've always looked for in amps is their ability to lure me into the music and to allow my mind to relax and forget that I'm listening to headphones (as such) rather than an amp the extracts every last detail (which the Omega II's are already quite good at in their own right, and maybe too good). This is why I prefer the 007t and especially the Egmont Signature over the KGSS models that I've heard. YMMV. About the price difference, I can't really help you there. It all depends on what you're looking for from the Omega II's and what it's worth to you.

 

[surfboardz26]

i know that the kgss is probably one of the fastes electrostat amps out, but it can also make the sound a little too edgy or cold. With the he60's it makes them sound very fast and dilivers excellent pace, rythem, and timing. with my stax sr-404 this amp sometimes makes me wish i had the tubes or the blue hawaii because the sound can sometimes get too edgy and dry.

Ive never heard the egmont but i know that since the signature sound of the omega II's are dark and a little slower than most electrostats I belive that is the reason why the kgss makes them more alive and spark more magic into the headphone.

good luck on your amp and most of all ENJOY!

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfboardz26 i know that the kgss is probably one of the fastes electrostat amps out, but it can also make the sound a little too edgy or cold.

This is part of what I was trying to get across. To me, the Omega II's already tend toward the edgy and cold (I'd add 'dry' as well), say, in comparison to the R10's or HE90's, which are my reference points when it comes to top of the line headphones.

For me to be reaching for the Omega II's, I needed an amp that would take a bit of this edge off. This then translated to tubes, and the Egmont Signature did the trick exceptionally well. The 007t also did a nice job but was not quite as magical.

 

[dannyandelyse]

Hello,
I have had the pleasure to listen to Waynes amp at Imitbikers house on my Omegas. I have two KGSSs one standard and one with the big blackgate caps. I am not gonna be much help because they all sound GREAT. The Egmont was warm wonderful and strong...typical tube strenths. The KGSS standard is fast, clear, transparent and for $1500 or so is a fine value. The KGSS with the big blackgates is a bit deeper and stronger sounding but retains the speed and clearness of the standard KGSS.
They all sound excellent to my ears and match well with the Omegas.

 

[sclamb]

Interesting responses in that surfboardz26 finds the O2s dark and slower than other electrostats and Wmcmanus feels the O2s are cold and edgy, and perhaps dry. It shows how perceptions vary and also highlights perhaps the difficulty is answering the type of question that I posed.

Personally, I find the O2s not edgy or cold but more on the dark side, and I have a fairly analytical and netutral amp and cables. When I spoke to Rudi about fitting the ECC32s to the Signature he was honest in saying that he felt they would make the presentation a little more coloured and a little slower.

I did audition the Stax 717 at the same time as the 007t and I preferred, and therefore bought, the 007t, so I guess I like the tube sound with my setup but just wonder if there is more detail, more top end and bottom end extension to be had, to complement the already excellent mid-range of the O2s.

Will that come from the KGSS or the Signature? I know Nik raved about the Signature, and he also liked the ECC32s I think.

Simon

 

[sclamb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyandelyse Hello, I have had the pleasure to listen to Waynes amp at Imitbikers house on my Omegas. I have two KGSSs one standard and one with the big blackgate caps. I am not gonna be much help because they all sound GREAT. The Egmont was warm wonderful and strong...typical tube strenths. The KGSS standard is fast, clear, transparent and for $1500 or so is a fine value. The KGSS with the big blackgates is a bit deeper and stronger sounding but retains the speed and clearness of the standard KGSS. They all sound excellent to my ears and match well with the Omegas.

Have you heard the O2s with the 007t amp? If so, was the overall presentation signifcantly better with the KGSS amps and the Signature amp over the 007t?

Simon

 

[sclamb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Simon, as far as I know, I'm the only Head-Fi'er who presently owns an Egmont Signature

Is that a significant fact in that no-one else seems to have gone down the Egmont Signature route? Seems odd for such a large community that you have the only one. I do see much more written about the KGSS.

Simon

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclamb Is that a significant fact in that no-one else seems to have gone down the Egmont Signature route? Seems odd for such a large community that you have the only one. I do see much more written about the KGSS. Simon

It seems to be more of a Europe vs. US issue than anything. I'm sure that price and convenience (in terms of making payment, arranging the shipment, and service after the sale) also come into play. There have been several threads about why more people don't buy Meier Audio (from Germany) amps, and these are the factors most commmonly cited. Plus, since not as many people have them, not much is written about them, so word doesn't get out as quickly. On top of that, there is no opportunity to audition them, even at Head-Fi meets, let alone in stores. Since there are now so many excellent choices (for dynamic headphone amps certainly) from US-based companies, buying from Meier Audio or RudiStor involves thinking outside of the box, and possibly incurring more cost and/or taking more risk (in terms of potential shipping and service issues, let alone whether it sounds the way you hope it will). That, and it costs a lot more than the KGSS models which are also excellent amps.

 

[sclamb]

Good points, and the converse is true for me. I am thinking seriously about the KGSS, but after adding in VAT and duty (around 22% extra), it closes the price gap to the Signature a bit. Add to that the inconvenience and cost of having to ship back to the US for service/repair (if ever needed) and the gap closes a bit more.

[We need an international meet so that we can bring the best of Europe (such as Meier Audio, Graham Slee, Rudistor) to the table with the US equipment (RSA, Headamp, Singlepower etc.)]

Simon

 

[immtbiker]

Simon...I had the Omegas with both the 007t and the base model KGSS at the same time. I found that the 007t had better synergy with the O2's.
I find the KGSS has no vava-voom! In order to get any volume out of the O2 I had to turn the KGSS volume up to 2 o'clock. Even then, I could not get over the feeling that something was missing. There is no personality.
The Omegas are slightly dark, but they are real and revealing. They are a true presentation of the source (I guess you can say they're on the dark side of neutral). The bass is real, but it is lacking on the visceral impact front, compared to dynamic cans such as the R-10's. Combo'd with the 007t's tubed output, makes for a better combination.

With Wayne's Egmont Signature, there is a magic that is a step above the 007t. But it is also 4 times the price. Also, there are quality control issues with the amp that would make me leary to plunk down $2100 US on the newest version. There is a constant audible hum that is pretty loud (which I think has been occuring since Wayne got it), and the standby and the on light come on and off as they please with no consistancy. Sending a 35 lb amp back to Italy would make me cautious of buying one, just as your stated concerns about repairing an amp from the US. The one that I have on loan from Wayne was a $5500 version, so it can't be compared with the lesser $2100 current model.

All in all, I would stick with the 007t and tube roll to taste and be happy as any Head-Fier could be.

 

[dannyandelyse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclamb Have you heard the O2s with the 007t amp? If so, was the overall presentation signifcantly better with the KGSS amps and the Signature amp over the 007t? Simon

Yes, Both better than Stax 007t. Believe it or not, the Stax 007t sounds excellent with Senn Orpheus. The Stax Omegas cold and edgy? Wayne does live in the Grand Caymans, Damn...the whole rest of the planet probably seems cold to him. Problems, problems.....
Dan

 

[dannyandelyse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker Simon...I had the Omegas with both the 007t and the base model KGSS at the same time. I found that the 007t had better synergy with the O2's. I find the KGSS has no vava-voom! In order to get any volume out of the O2 I had to turn the KGSS volume up to 2 o'clock. Even then, I could not get over the feeling that something was missing. There is no personality. The Omegas are slightly dark, but they are real and revealing. They are a true presentation of the source (I guess you can say they're on the dark side of neutral). The bass is real, but it is lacking on the visceral impact front, compared to dynamic cans such as the R-10's. Combo'd with the 007t's tubed output, makes for a better combination. All in all, I would stick with the 007t and tube roll to taste and be happy as any Head-Fier could be.

Am glad to see we agree to disagee. Maybe the best answer is to have both....solid state amp and tube. Then again....maybe not.

 

[immtbiker]

Having both is a good idea, because the KGSS is fast for rock, and the 007t is warm for Jazz and vocals. I just wish the KGSS had a higher output.

BTW- Most CDP's with RCA's and balanced XLR's have another volt and a half of output on the balanced side.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker Also, there are quality control issues with the amp that would make me leary to plunk down $2100 US on the newest version. There is a constant audible hum that is pretty loud (which I think has been occuring since Wayne got it), and the standby and the on light come on and off as they please with no consistancy. Sending a 35 lb amp back to Italy would make me cautious of buying one, just as your stated concerns about repairing an amp from the US.

About the hum, it's audible if you're not playing any music and are not wearing the headphones. But you can't hear it all once you put the O2's on your head, even before pressing the "Play" button (unless, I suppose, you are sitting within a couple of feet of the amp). Once the music starts, you definitely don't hear the hum at all (not even between tracks as far as I can recall).

The hum wasn't present when I bought the amp from Nik. It is something that developed since I've owned it. I've taken it to a couple of meets with me, so it could have been jostled while in transit. As best I can tell (and I think Aaron agrees) it seems to be a grounding problem of some sort, and most likely a very easy one to fix. Were it not for Rudi being in Italy, I would have sent the amp in a long time ago. Maybe some day I'll have Ray or Mikhail take a quick look at it, or who knows, I may use it as an excuse to go to Italy some day!!!

As for the "standby" and "on" lights coming on and off with no rhyme or reason, this is something that has developed fairly recently. I'm not sure what is going on there, but again, I suspect it would be a simple fix and it does not affect the amp's performance in any way whatsoever.

To get the best performance from the Egmont Signature, you should use CV181 tubes in the middle socket positions. Unfortunately, one of the tubes on each of the pairs that I have went bad, so to use the ones that I still have would be a mix and match situation. Instead, I've resorted to using standard issue Russian 6SN7 tubes in those positions (which is the way it is configured at Aaron's place now). So with a nice pair of CV181 tubes rolled in, it will sound even better than what Aaron or Danny have heard from it of late.

Unfortunately also, I didn't have a much of chance to compare the Egmont Signature to the 007t while I still owned it (and come to think of it, that one had also been on loan to Aaron at one time... we do try to take care of each other). Anyway, I tend to agree with Aaron's point that the 007t is a great value at its price point and probably the place to start with the O2's. If you were real adventurous, you could buy an 007t, listen to it for long enough to get used to its sound, and then arrange with Rudi to audition the Egmont Signature. The 007t holds its resale value quite well. It's also reasonably small so you could even lug it along with you. Anything to find an excuse to go to Italy...