Warning click bait: I hate to EQ
Jan 17, 2023 at 8:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 110

zlayde

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Hi all -

I'm relatively new here but I've built a nice little collection of stuff and I want to share what I guess would be considered a semi-controversial observation (I think?):

I hate to EQ.

Every time I apply the EQ presets that are custom-tailored for certain headphones or IEMs, the overall sound experience sounds thinner/less warm/more metallic. The decibel level clearly goes down so maybe some of the difference is attributable to that? On Mac I'm using SoundSource and Qudelix 5K on portable.

I'm not posting this here to pick a fight with EQ-lovers. I'm just curious if I'm doing something wrong?

P.S. I will say there is one case where EQ really felt like it was needed: UM Mest MKII. It was a muddled mess unless I put EQ on. The rest of my stuff (u12t and Arya) felt like they were better without EQ.

Any other insights/tricks I'm missing?

Rich
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 2:54 AM Post #2 of 110
There's no one size fits all setting for EQ. It's going to vary from one set of headphones to another, and will also depend on your particular taste. I've always found that EQ presets, especially the ones named after genres of music, are useless. If you can't adjust bands individually, it's not worth EQing, because you'll never be satisfied. Ones designed for specific makes and models of cans are a little bit better, but that doesn't take into account your personal tastes in response curves.

It is possible to get by without EQ if you sample a LOT of headphones and buy a set that sound right out of the box. But that is going to be a trial and error affair. I luckily stumbled upon some headphones that are with a couple of dB of my ideal curve. But that might not be your ideal.

You just have to get an equalizer that is as adjustable a possible, and take an organized approach to equalizing to achieve your personal target curve. That takes some work and careful concentration. Not everyone is willing to put that into finding an optimal sound. They just buy another random set of headphones that are off in a different direction. That kind of random flailing about is what fuels the headphone market.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 2:55 AM Post #3 of 110
EQ is applied subtractively to avoid clipping, so it is going to have a lower volume level than without. You just turn the volume up a little bit.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 3:49 AM Post #4 of 110
It's well accepted that the frequency response is a major criterion in establishing a listener's preference. That alone justifies EQ.
Can a headphone/IEM already fit your preference? Of course that's possible, but it's statistically way more likely that there is another response you'd like more. The headphone might need a complete re-tuning or maybe it only needs a subtle change in one place to get your favorite response. Anything is possible but just by mentioning 2 different IEMs you think you prefer without EQ, It seems like there is a problem. It's so very unlikely that both are your preferred signature, as they are already noticeably different.

Just with that I'm very tempted to question what "custom-tailored" actually means in this case. Don't get me wrong, if you don't know where you're going, for some FR that will be more pleasing to you, there is also a vast array of FRs that would make the IEMs subjectively worst for you. Nobody said EQ was easy.
It's like giving paint and a brush to someone, sometimes you'll love it, sometimes you would have preferred no work done at all.

https://static.fabrik.io/xua/a54f6f2dc573b365.jpeg?lossless=1&w=2880&h=5120&fit=max&s=2f4f08f77aa80addc66cb7e4b021f461



Both IEMs have a fairly typical response(different but typical), and I wouldn't be surprised if you happened to enjoy your music using both as they are. But I'd be even less surprised to learn that there is still one response you like more. Aria seems easier to EQ with its smooth response so you probably should fool around more with that one for now. I cannot talk about you and your ears, but I can talk about what I would probably prefer(which is subjective and not in a any way something you must prefer. I just happen to know myself a little when it comes to FR as I've been fooling with EQ and IEMs for a LONG time):
I like bass rumble but I don't like extra energy above 100Hz, so based on online measurements and assuming I'm able to get a nice seal, I would probably attenuate a fairly large area centered around 150Hz or a little lower by... let's say -3dB for a first try.
Then I would probably fool around 4kHz in a really narrow band because it's one of those frequencies where a little too much kills me but too little kills the energy of the track. So trying to find what's just right for me is usually beneficial to my overall enjoyment.
And really that's it because the original FR seems clean. Most people would probably wish to lift part of the treble, but I usually don't take any risk with high frequencies and at the very least I do not rely on measurements for tuning high freqs.

EQing the U12 might be trickier. Some of the fluctuating parts in the upper range might not feel like much subjectively, and might not be what a graph shows them to be. Without knowing the reason for those variations on the graph I just googled, there is a possibility of things going very wrong very fast when trying to straight up compensate for it. I'd probably have to fool around with tones and EQ, but I have IEMs with somewhat similar trends that I mostly don't touch in the end because it's trouble(needs EQ but in such a very local way that a slightly different insertion ruins everything by shifting the frequency of some peaks and dips.
I still would do the same as with the Aria for the bass boost bleeding too much above 100Hz for my taste. For the rest I can't say for sure.



About the EQ as a tool, some people find dramatic differences between one EQ and another one. Personally so long as I have parametric EQ, I'm happy. I did purchase a "pro" EQ software and I love the freedom and versatility, but I really did that because the free parametric stuff I was using with foobar before would crash all the time while I was tweaking a response. So frustrating to spend time on a specific EQ and to lose all the data in a crash, several times in a row. ARRRRRghhhhhhhh!!!!
Anyway my initial point wasn't to whine but to say that some people seem care about the "quality" of the EQ used. I agree that EQ on DAPs is often crap or very insufficient, and non parametric stuff rarely make me happy. Beyond that, I don't know what people feel that I don't but maybe it's part of why you can't be satisfied?

You brought up volume change and of course that's very important. There is nothing you can do about it really. Just stick with an EQ and stop going back and forth between bypassed and ON. Give it time, forget about it, get used to it, and see if something seems annoying or lacking. Then go back to EQ just to find in what frequency range your issues is located. Once you have some idea about the area, you can try something, give it some more listening time to get used to it and so on. For me a general tuning takes a minute now that I have a fairly good idea of what I like, but the fine tuning part can stretch over days, weeks, or just never really end(maniac+lack of skill= many hours of work:crying_cat_face:).

And as posted above, you do have to mind digital clipping and secure enough headroom with the general gain. That, try to use less amplitude in your EQ than you first think you want(I'd say to cut it in half right away). And be careful with subs and high freqs as you might bring up more distortions than actual music. Overall, if your ears are happy, all is well. Don't trust any claim of what's right or neutral, you have your own head and your own concept of neutral sound based on your specific body(that advice is stupid if we're talking about EQing speakers because they do have a neutral that works for everybody without massively damaged hearing).
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 10:42 AM Post #5 of 110
I use the oratory1990 profiles for my headphones as a base and fine tune from that to my personal taste, I find the difference like night and day and I haven't owned a headphone that doesn't need EQ tweaking, regardless of price range.
I also use Apple and used eqmac before I bought my RME ADI 2 https://eqmac.app which I can highly recommend to all Mac/OS users.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 11:30 AM Post #6 of 110
I like to do things in a simple way if possible. I have never tried headphone EQ. I use good headphones (Sennheiser HD-598) driven from my DIY headphone adapter/crossfeed connected to the speaker terminals of my amp. The system doesn't have EQ anywhere (except for normal bass/treble of course). A lot of my listening comes from CDs and if I use say Spotify on my Mac there is no EQ either. I let my ears get used to the balance of my headphones. Simple and easy. Excessive spatiality is the issue with headphones that bothers me and that is dealth with (crossfeed). This approach may seem like I don't care about good sound quality. That's not the case. I do care, but I also understand the philosophy that if only perfect is good enough you are never content of anything. I set myself a level to reach (say 90 % of perfection) and when that is reached it is time to be content and enjoy life (music in this case). It is the capitalists and snake oil sellers trying to mess with out heads preventing us to enjoy our lives and make us chase the perfection like a dog its tail. People should stop and think what makes us happy and what do we need to be happy. Often less than what marketing makes us believe.
 
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Jan 18, 2023 at 3:30 PM Post #7 of 110
There's nothing you can do to improve the sound of your system that makes more of a difference than EQ. But you have to be willing to take the time to understand how it works and experiment to find the proper response curve for your ears and equipment. It isn't a gimme.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 3:32 PM Post #8 of 110
I also use Apple and used eqmac before I bought my RME ADI 2 https://eqmac.app which I can highly recommend to all Mac/OS users.
I wish there was something that worked on both the Mac and iPhone.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 4:16 PM Post #9 of 110
On my P6K the presets sound, to be blunt, awful with any iem I've tried, I'm not sure why they even bothered as the adjusters are wildly up and down almost to max in places. Really nice sounding player with it off though. Each time I try to subtly boost or reduce frequencies on any player, trying to perfect the sound, I listen again with eq off and what I thought sounded good doesn't and often makes listening fatiguing.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Post #10 of 110
Make small adjustments and then listen to music for a while and try to discern what is missing or what there’s too much of. Do another round of listening and do another small adjustment. Take it in baby steps and you’ll get there.
 
Jan 18, 2023 at 4:29 PM Post #12 of 110
Yes, subtract the frequencies that overpower. You can find the right level once you’re done.
 
Feb 8, 2023 at 1:01 AM Post #14 of 110
Every time I apply the EQ presets that are custom-tailored for certain headphones or IEMs, the overall sound experience sounds thinner/less warm/more metallic. The decibel level clearly goes down so maybe some of the difference is attributable to that? On Mac I'm using SoundSource and Qudelix 5K on portable.
this is true, you have to adjust your volume accourdingly, if you use the right volume/EQ preset the sound will actually sound more natural since there are no frequencys anymore that jump out that color the sound, maybe to your liking, and kinda block you from going to a louder volume

so if you always applied EQ without adjusting your volume its no wonder it sounds thin!! (tho it depends on the eq but i expect you mean full range "correction")
 
Feb 8, 2023 at 2:22 AM Post #15 of 110
I think the above posts have already iterated what I would say about EQ, so operating under the assumption of you wanting to use EQ. If you use sound source I strongly recc opening the native apple plugin AUNBandEQ, you get up to 16 bands and can pick the frequency, BQ, gain, etc. It's very nice and useful, I've been using that and enjoy it more than peace APO in a few ways even.
 

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