Time Dispel Myth Cable
Apr 25, 2023 at 4:33 PM Post #16 of 32
I used to watch the reboot series with my dad growing up. Little did I suspect that when I watched The Village in a movie theater, that I'd figure out the ending in the middle of it (because it was an Outer Limits episode).

Is that the one with a man and woman running around and at the end they find themselves in a giant girls doll house?

I'm thinking of The Twilight Zone: 'Stopover In A Quiet Town'. I often confuse the two shows.

 
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Apr 25, 2023 at 4:59 PM Post #17 of 32
Is that the one with a man and woman running around and at the end they find themselves in a giant girls doll house?

I'm thinking of The Twilight Zone: 'Stopover In A Quiet Town'. I often confuse the two shows.

No, there was an episode in the reboot series where you think everyone is living in the past, but then at the end kids scale a fence and run into a modern road with a car that passes by. You find out their parents were a cult who wanted to have a society that lived in isolation.
 
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Apr 25, 2023 at 5:08 PM Post #18 of 32
No, there was an episode in the reboot series where you think everyone is living in the past, but then at the end kids scale a fence and run into a modern road with a car that passes by. You find out their parents were a cult who wanted to have a society that lived in isolation.

I've just been reading about a mother and father in California who kept their kids chained up for many years. A young woman breaks free and runs into the road and manages to phone the police.

'Truth is stranger than fiction'.
 
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Apr 25, 2023 at 6:02 PM Post #19 of 32
I've just been reading about a mother and father in California who kept their kids chained up for many years. A young woman breaks free and runs into the road and manages to phone the police.

'Truth is stranger than fiction'.
That’s awful: humans are capable of so much cruelty. Only animal that I can think of are lion males who will kill previous cubs in a pride.
 
Apr 26, 2023 at 2:45 AM Post #21 of 32
I saw a nature show once that was like a horrible news story.

A lady squirrel had just given birth to three cute little pink babies. Ever so cute! She looks in the cupboard and she's run out of milk. "Oh no! I need to go to the store. But who will watch my babies?" Suddenly a knock at the door. She opens it and it's Mr. Neighbor Squirrel. "Oh Mr. Neighbor Squirrel, will you look after my babies while I pop down to the store for a minute?" "No problem at all." says Mr. Neighbor Squirrel.

She kisses each little baby on the forehead, and dashes out the door. As soon as she's gone, Mr. Neighbor Squirrel grins evilly, and leers at the babies in their nest. He picks up the fattest one and quick as a wink SHOVES IT IN HIS MOUTH! "MMMfff! MMmmff... Schlurp, schlurp..."

Mommy Squirrel comes back in, "I forgot my purse..." She picks up her purse and looks at Mr. Neighbor Squirrel quizzically. His cheek is fat and he's chewing and drooling. "Is everything OK?" she asks. "MMmooooh yetthhhh..." Mr Neighbor Squirrel slurs with his mouth full. "Then I'll be right back." she replies and exits.

Mr. Neighbor Squirrel swallows big and hovers over the nest with the two babies in it. He SHOVES ANOTHER ONE IN HIS MOUTH! "MMMfff! MMmmff... Schlurp, schlurp..." Mommy Squirrel dashes back in the door. "Silly me, forgot my car keys..." She looks at Mr. Neighbor Squirrel who is trying to hide his fat cheeks and slurping. She glances over at the nest and sees just one baby. "Oh! Where are the other two?!" Mr. Neighbor Squirrel quickly answers, "Nawt to worry, Mam. They're just in the bathroom." Mommy squirrel sighs in relief. "Oh all right..." and she leaves.

Mr Neighbor Squirrel SHOVES THE LAST BABY IN HIS MOUTH! "MMMfff! MMmmff... Schlurp, schlurp..."

And then he catches a bus for Vegas, never to be seen again.

That's nature for ya!
 
Apr 26, 2023 at 11:34 PM Post #22 of 32
INTRODUCTION
Well, here we are peeps. Not a fan of cable change acoustic camp until proven wrong. LOL.
Anyways no more time wasting. Let's get into it.

The time has cometh...

EQUIPMENT
The competitors are:
- Lunashop 99% Pure Silver Palladium + Graphene Gold Earphone Shielding Cable
- Nicehck RedAg
- Nicehck PurpleSE

SOURCE
Sony ZX700 4.4mm Volume locked

ORDER OF USAGE
99% → Redag → 99% → PurpleSE

RESULT
After playing around for a while, this is what happened.
No tonality/FR changed whatsoever. 'a' stays as 'a', 'C' stays as 'C'. The only thing that changed are the techs somewhat. See more below.

99% Lunashop cable
cable_lunashop.jpg
Irresistible vocals. Not sure if it's because it sounded so close or the cable quality. However the background details may sound smudgy or not as clear due to acoustic overlaps. Using it on instruments only, without vocals, track makes it sounded weird or off. So, this is for those who only want vocals.

RedAg
cable_redag.jpg
Everything sounds so distant, for real. Totally unexpected. Still sounds good, but vocals no match for 99% cable but it doesn't have the smudge. Those ch,zh,th, ss bad recordings/masterings will be exposed. A good tester for proper recording/mastering tracks.

PurpleSE
cable_purplese.jpg
Somewhere in between of the other 2 cables. Not as close but not as far as the other cables. But with one distinction. It sounds so clean and clear. No need to worry for smudge from other sources.

CONCLUSION
So there you have it. If cable affects sounds or not, it definitely does. But it's most probably not the tonality/FR. So after all this. we have to pick a winner.

AND THE WINNER IS...
PurpleSE

What's the point of arguing with folks here anyway? They will stick their fingers to their ears, singing "la la la la" whenever hearing anything not fitting their world view anyway.

If the cable makes no different, then it shouldn't be so darn hard to find a replacement cable that does not mess up the sound of the Andromeda 2020, or even the U12T. Now, if the sound can go down, can go up? I don't know, I haven't heard any of my IEMs improved by a changing cable, just degraded or unchanged. But the fact that it can go down already dispels the idea "zero difference." Whether it can go "up" is something I'll remain curious and test for myself when there is a chance.
 
Apr 27, 2023 at 12:13 AM Post #23 of 32
What's the point of arguing with folks here anyway? They will stick their fingers to their ears, singing "la la la la" whenever hearing anything not fitting their world view anyway.

If the cable makes no different, then it shouldn't be so darn hard to find a replacement cable that does not mess up the sound of the Andromeda 2020, or even the U12T. Now, if the sound can go down, can go up? I don't know, I haven't heard any of my IEMs improved by a changing cable, just degraded or unchanged. But the fact that it can go down already dispels the idea "zero difference." Whether it can go "up" is something I'll remain curious and test for myself when there is a chance.
With my experience with headphone cables, the only main difference can be microphonics of the size of cable transmitting an extra noise of its movement. With my wired headphones, I have balanced cables because my headphone amp has balanced output (which only main difference is higher gain). So greatest example I have is when I tried ordering Dan Clark's AEON closed headphone. They were out of their standard balanced headphone cable, and were saying they were going to send me their premium balanced headphone cable. It's the main headphone cable I have that if I move my head around, there's a noticeable noise from the movement.
 
Apr 27, 2023 at 1:02 AM Post #24 of 32
When I got my Oppo PM-1s, they came with a very fancy cable and a short cheap cable to connect to your phone in your shirt pocket. I didn't stick my fingers in my ears and go la la la... I compared them by plugging one cable into left and the other into right. You can guess what I found out.
 
Apr 27, 2023 at 5:34 AM Post #25 of 32
What's the point of arguing with folks here anyway? They will stick their fingers to their ears, singing "la la la la" whenever hearing anything not fitting their world view anyway.

If the cable makes no different, then it shouldn't be so darn hard to find a replacement cable that does not mess up the sound of the Andromeda 2020, or even the U12T. Now, if the sound can go down, can go up? I don't know, I haven't heard any of my IEMs improved by a changing cable, just degraded or unchanged. But the fact that it can go down already dispels the idea "zero difference." Whether it can go "up" is something I'll remain curious and test for myself when there is a chance.
For the Andro, Purrin measured this(green is 2020's version impedance)
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?attachments/upload_2020-7-5_19-0-11-png.21701/

So, yeah, almost anything from amp to cable has the ability to, at the very least, make some audible FR change. And that's only part of the fun, as many devices will cry when presented to below 5ohm load. For those, a cable with an extra ohm could be a sort of electrical salvation(in this scenario, the typically worse cables with higher impedance would probably improve fidelity, but also boost the 6 to 9kHz with the subjective impact that would have).
This IEM is among a short list of forever brought up examples of "everything sounds different" for a reason, and the reason is that ludicrous impedance curve.
I've heard that IEM and thought it was really nice, but there is no way I'm giving money for something like that. I already didn't buy the SE846 that I really enjoyed (plus I like that small Shure shape), because the impedance curve was going from 16 to a little below 5ohm. That Andro does even worse. :scream:

About the U12T, to this day I don't know if the big sound changes are an urban legend born from guys with too much imagination, or if there is indeed something within all the unusual stuff in their design that is not nearly as stable as it should be. The super proprietary LID technology (let's call it a cheap voltage divider, given what it does) should in principle greatly minimize the impact of amps or cables having a different impedance from the last one. Is it enough? Does it have other issues? IDK. I haven't seen anybody look that up seriously in a few scenarios, and I haven't tried it myself.
I'm not saying, nothing happens, it is one weird IEM in various aspects. I'm saying I do not trust online people claiming to know what they're hearing, and I need more than a mob of opinionated people to decide when something is factual.


Anyway, back to cables and possible sound change being audible. Of course, it's possible. A possibility and specific associated circumstances however do not magically prove anybody with a gut feeling and bad testing routines to be right all the time. That fundamental aspect of logic is being ignored by anybody who finds it more convenient to do things the wrong but easy way.
Similarly, I don't understand how so many people fall for the dumbest groupthink fallacy in the book. I heard differences in some IEMs when switching between some cables. I have measured IEMs that would be expected to audibly different in FR (above 1dB change over a significant frequency range) simply with a change from 0.1 to 1ohm at the source, and have measured more than 1ohm difference between some cables. Does that make me support any random guy online claiming to have heard whatever change for whatever reason he cherry-picked as the cause? No!!!!! One does not justify the other. It does not have to, and really it shouldn't. For each very real and very obvious sound difference scenario, I'm confident we can find a dozen people who just fooled themselves one way or another. And then we surely can find a few others who do hear a real sound change, but they then draw the wrong conclusion about what caused it.
Too many people support whatever BS is being posted, so long as the guy is "on their side". Let's do better than that and give value to the qualitative demonstration of fact instead of empty claims, overconfidence, pander and demagogy.
I know, me saying that when the replies to this particular thread have been nothing but trolling, is mighty ironic. In some ways, that makes me consider joining OP's side, if only for the sake of not being associated with the trolls. But once again, it's not about what's easy, it's not about crowd pleasing or getting likes. It most certainly is not something that should be dumbed-down into only 2 black or white, all or nothing choices. It's about the facts and how much confidence we should put behind what's presented without evidence (the entirety of OP's post lacks supporting evidence).
Testing for audible differences between 2 specific cables is more complicated and demanding than most people imagine. As you rightfully mentioned, the IEM in use tends to be mighty significant for the outcome. OP didn't even consider that information to be relevant to his little case... It's only one of many problems in his 'experiment', but it's already enough for me to suspect that, for now, he is probably not qualified to weigh in on cable testing.
Not that I think any reviewers usually talking about the sound differences of cables are qualified (maybe there is one, and I just haven't seen him?). Those guys usually humiliate themselves and ruin whatever credibility they built on other subjects. I find that disappointing and counterproductive.
 
Apr 27, 2023 at 6:43 AM Post #26 of 32
About the U12T, to this day I don't know if the big sound changes are an urban legend born from guys with too much imagination, or if there is indeed something within all the unusual stuff in their design that is not nearly as stable as it should be. The super proprietary LID technology (let's call it a cheap voltage divider, given what it does) should in principle greatly minimize the impact of amps or cables having a different impedance from the last one. Is it enough? Does it have other issues? IDK. I haven't seen anybody look that up seriously in a few scenarios, and I haven't tried it myself.

U12T is very stubborn when it comes to changing sound between sources. I used it to A/B tests sources (let’s call DAC+Amp sources for sake of brevity) for a review recently, and I wouldn’t use it again. It makes picking out difference such a painful activity (meaning the LID works). I do hear change in tonality when pairing with a R2R device though, so sources can colour the sound (don’t understand how, since they suppose to measure flat to 40kHz).

I’m shocked when realised that the sound degraded when swapping from the stock cable. As you know, stock cable of 64 audio is never beyond “meh” in terms of physical handling, so I got a $20 cable with interchangeable plugs, being sure that the LID would take care of everything. Nah, it sounds noticeably blurry and dull. A friend gave me his cable, now the U12T sounds like stock, with a comfortable cable, and I’m happy.

Even if cable can change sound, IMHO, it’s too unpredictable and expensive to use exclusively for “tuning”. But of course when one already have everything, there is nothing else to buy but a nice cable.

Anyhow, I’m back to the search for a cable for the Andro. Thanks for a civilised discussion even though I was hot headed.
 
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Apr 27, 2023 at 12:11 PM Post #27 of 32
Personally, I avoid gear that is deliberately designed to perform out of spec. It's too easy to just get an inexpensive audibly transparent player, transducers that don't require proprietary impedances, and a Amazon Basics or Monoprice cable that performs its job flawlessly. Too often audiophiles assume that doing things the hard way for no reason is the purpose of the hobby.
 
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Apr 28, 2023 at 3:09 AM Post #28 of 32
The Andro is an IEM that has been around for years and I think one of the reasons for it's popularity is the fact that you can drive it directly from a phone. You don't need a powerfull DAP or a fancy dongle.

You get audiophile sound quality straight from your phone, which is as simple as it gets.
 
Apr 28, 2023 at 4:56 AM Post #29 of 32
The Andro is an IEM that has been around for years and I think one of the reasons for it's popularity is the fact that you can drive it directly from a phone. You don't need a powerfull DAP or a fancy dongle.

You get audiophile sound quality straight from your phone, which is as simple as it gets.
Obviously they do not need much power at all (then again, outside a handful of cases, IEMs are not power hungry and the power conversations about them are usually factless ideologies).
But where I disagree with you is how the Andro is one of those IEMs that is more source dependent than most. Doesn't mean it will stop working, or that everybody will go "ew" unless you get a super special amp section. But the sound will change more with different amp sections than when used with a majority of other IEMs.
-High sensitivity means background hiss from more devices.
-Extremely low and non-flat impedance means significant FR change from differences in the impedance of the sources used. And for some amp sections, a load so close to short circuit conditions will not be handled well. In a way, the high sensi can help for that as only very little power is flowing when in use, so we avoid dramatic overheating and serious issues. But it can still massively degrade the measurements of the amp and, in a few cases, distort beyond what would be acceptable for a listener.
-Amps with protection caps will typically assassinate the bass when facing a very low impedance load.

While many other IEMs can face the same issues into some amp sections, the Andro being among the more extreme cases, it will be more likely to cause those issues when paired randomly. Which kind of goes against your general idea.
 
Apr 28, 2023 at 6:22 AM Post #30 of 32
I see that I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote. I should have added that not only is a powerful DAP unnecessary with the Andromeda, it is overkill and counterproductive because of the problems that you mention. The only kind of DAP I would use with the Andro is low power micro-DAPs, like the RS2.

But my point is that if you stick with a phone the Andro is not the kind of audiophile stupidity that bigshot alludes to.

When it comes to hard to drive IEMs you may have more experience than I, but of the ones that have been in my possession I would say that the Aroma Jewel and the VE EXT seem to benefit from high gain/turbo setting. So I would say they are a bit harder to drive than most IEMs.
 

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