[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been chastised by some of my fellow Moderators about the crappy forum name and description I chose for this soon-to-be-released forum (and it is up, just waiting for the "on" switch to be thrown). Sorry, guys. It was due to frustration with how so many cable-related discussions were almost invariably going in recent times--which isn't an excuse for me to ridicule the substantial number of community members who are fool enough not to agree with me. Okay, so here's the deal: There will be an Objectivist Audio Forum (which is what it is tentatively named). It will not be a sub-forum of the cable forum, but on the same hierarchical level as the other equipment forums, as reasonably requested by some of you, including some of the Moderators in discussions with them. The separation is intended to serve as the best solution to both sides of this topic (and I'm not saying "both sides" to suggest it has to always be contentious, but just for lack of better words, and/or the time to think of better phrasing). The separation isn't at all intended to suggest one side is more right or more valid in its positions on matters related than the other side.It will likely take a little while to get a groove on with respect to how the conversations related will settle, migrate, morph, etc. between the two locations, but I do feel confident it will work itself out for the better. Again, I'm sorry for what some reasonably interpreted as a condescending forum name and description (as, well, they were sort of condescending). If you wish to put forth some suggestions on alternate names for the forum, now's the time. Currently, there is no description (to be placed under the forum name to describe what one is walking into by entering it), so if anyone wants to help draft something concise to describe it, we're open to the suggestions there, too.

So, what is going to be our name?

As Jude says above, "Now's the time."

Think up a new one now, or be an "Objectivist " forever.

Not that being an Objectivist is so bad. In fact, the name is starting to grow on me. Being an objectivist can mean different things to different people. To me it is starting to mean sitting on the fence and leaning toward the side where evidence is mounting. I like to think of it as sort of a thinking man's approach. Determine the choices, sort through the data and try to make an 'objective' decision.

Now it's up to you guys. The Objectivist Audio Forum, love it or rename it.

USG

 

[wavoman]

I think it is very important that the forum not waste time discussing objective vs subjective ways of thinking.

We want to make actual, statistically designed, valid, listener-blind listening tests, and analyze the data.

At least I do.

We don't want to analyze specs, or make engineering bench measurements (at least I don't) ... the magazines do that for us, and it predicts very little.

So we are objectively studying subjective opinions!

USG, as I emailed you, I propose (now improved from my email):

Empirical Listenting Test Forum -- investigating the audible differences in headphones, cables, digital encodings, etc. through actual replicated and statistically analyzed blinded listening tests.

 

[aaron313]

The Skeptics Playground

 

[Edwood]

Blood from a Stone

Dead Horse

 

[JadeEast]

The title " Science & Sound " could cover a broad scope of topics.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it is very important that the forum not waste time discussing objective vs subjective ways of thinking. We want to make actual, statistically designed, valid, listener-blind listening tests, and analyze the data. At least I do. We don't want to analyze specs, or make engineering bench measurements (at least I don't) ... the magazines do that for us, and it predicts very little. So we are objectively studying subjective opinions! USG, as I emailed you, I propose (now improved from my email): Empirical Listenting Test Forum -- investigating the audible differences in headphones, cables, digital encodings, etc. through actual replicated and statistically analyzed blinded listening tests.

Wow, Wavo, you have a lot of energy.....

I really like your new name

I don't have the discipline or singleness of purpose that you do and find myself wandering all over the place. My feeling about the objectivist forum is that it encompasses all of the things you wrote about, including the listening tests, and probably some more I haven't thought of.

There are going to be those who want to discuss objective vs subjective ways of thinking and I wouldn't want to leave them out.

There will be some who want to analyze specs and some who have equipment to make engineering bench measurements. There's a place for them here. We need their information too.

There are many aspects to being an objective thinker and all of them can be discussed here.

I'll send you an e-mail to finish our discussion.

USG

 

[PhaedrusX]

since this forum will be inherently unique in its scope, and set up as somewhat of a foil to the other forums on this site, i propose:

Measured Response:
Discussion of data and statistics collected from the empirical testing of audio and its associated gear.

 

[Publius]

HydrogenAudio?

Past that.... the terms "objectivist"/"skeptic"/"empiricist" are highly loaded terms with lots of baggage involved ("objectivist" especially). Logical positivism is a much more accurate description of the general philosophy involved.

I therefore propose "Audio Positivism". Or something like that.

 

[Filburt]

How about something a little less loaded. It almost sounds like a 'free speech zone' is being set up outside the perimeter of the head-fi audio convention.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about something a little less loaded. It almost sounds like a 'free speech zone' is being set up outside the perimeter of the head-fi audio convention.

Hi Filburt

What do you have in mind?

USG

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Skeptics Playground

Yeah, I think that one describe the content quite clearly.

 

[acidbasement]

I don't think objectivism or skepticism accurately describe what we've been discussing with regard to the content of this forum. Positivism is more accurate, but I'd rather go with wavoman's idea of empiricism. How about this:

Empirical Exchange
where dwell the true geeks. Here you will find discussions of science and engineering, and rigorous analyses and/or comparisons of equipment based on observable evidence. Not for the faint of heart.

I also like JadeEast's suggestion "Science and Sound".

 

[XXII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Past that.... the terms "objectivist"/"skeptic"/"empiricist" are highly loaded terms with lots of baggage involved ("objectivist" especially). Logical positivism is a much more accurate description of the general philosophy involved.

I don't think "empiricist" is a loaded term unlike the other 2. I second "empirical listening forum" or something like that.

 

[bigshot]

The name should not indicate that it's just discussion of testing procedure. It has to be the yang to the cable forum's definition's ying, or we will define certain types of discussion as being out of place anywhere at HeadFi.

I would suggest the most open and all encompassing definition possible... one that leaves it open for subjectivists to post to our forum too. After all, the objectivists welcome different points of view. We aren't the ones trying to isolate ourselves from dissent. Everyone should be on equal ground so the arguments rise and fall on their own merits.

Here's my suggestion...

"OBJECTIVE AUDIO: Free and open discussion of audio issues, both rational and purely subjective, from an objective point of view."

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

By the way, Upstateguy... I know you mean well, but spawning multiple threads on this is making it difficult to follow the discussions. Threads never follow the title exactly. They wander a little bit as they go. It's gotten to the point now where there are four or five threads on this topic, all discussing the same sorts of things. I'd prefer it if we just let it play out in the threads we have, rather than spawn more, if you don't mind.

Thanks
Steve