[gefski]

I am curious if anyone has a SACD player along with a Yggy. I’m in the market for a CD player (yes, I know Schiit has a transport coming soon). I am a big fan of jazz and classical. I also tend to purchase a lot of Hybrid SACDs just for the Redbook layer and play that through my Yggy. These all sound fantastic. However, for the past month I have been researching SACD players and people’s impressions. I’ve run into two different trends on this search. First, almost everyone believes SACD is an upgrade over standard Redbook. Second, everyone seems amazed when they buy a nice SACD player and listen to a CD. So here is what I’m trying to get at.... I have had my Yggy for 9 months and absolutely love it. It captures all recordings unbelievably well. I am wondering if many of these reviews that I see have never really heard what a really great DAC can do for the CD. And also, now I’m curious if there is even a point in getting a SACD player and utilizing those layers of my favorite recordings. Will a pure DSD output really be up to the quality of the Yggy.
I guess my post is kind of a question and also a statement. I’m just curious if anyone has had a serious listen to good SACD playback and also compared this with the Yggdrasil. I still haven’t determined what spinner I’m going to buy. It seems like I go all in and spend over 2k for a strong SACD player (and use the digital outs to the Yggy for my CDs) or just wait for the Schiit Transport.

It would be interesting if you could demo an SACD player, comparing SACD performance to Yggy’s performance on the Redbook layer of the same music from the same disc. I don’t mean switching back and forth, just extensive listening to each.

 

[Randolf711]

Yeah, I don’t think I will definitely figure this out until I just buy a player and test it. I’m strongly considering that route and then posting my opinions.

It would be interesting if you could demo an SACD player, comparing SACD performance to Yggy’s performance on the Redbook layer of the same music from the same disc. I don’t mean switching back and forth, just extensive listening to each.

 

[earnmyturns]

It would be interesting if you could demo an SACD player, comparing SACD performance to Yggy’s performance on the Redbook layer of the same music from the same disc. I don’t mean switching back and forth, just extensive listening to each.

But would it be the SACD player or whatever DSP was done to create the Redbook layer from the SACD layer? I don't have a SACD player, but I have several 88.2/24 digital albums from SACD remasters (for example, from the SACD remasters of several "Living Stereo" Fritz Reiner/CSO recordings) that sound superlative through my Yggdrasil. I don't have their Redbook versions, though.

 

[Randolf711]

This is another thing I’ve considered. SACD, or DSD, playback converted to PCM. Then run this through the Yggy. I’m still torn and think I won’t know my answer until I just buy a decent SACD player and try it.

But would it be the SACD player or whatever DSP was done to create the Redbook layer from the SACD layer? I don't have a SACD player, but I have several 88.2/24 digital albums from SACD remasters (for example, from the SACD remasters of several "Living Stereo" Fritz Reiner/CSO recordings) that sound superlative through my Yggdrasil. I don't have their Redbook versions, though.

 

[MisterMoJo]

This is another thing I’ve considered. SACD, or DSD, playback converted to PCM. Then run this through the Yggy. I’m still torn and think I won’t know my answer until I just buy a decent SACD player and try it.

I have tried this, and while not awful, it is not as good as pure dsd obviously. Just bite the bullet and buy a good sacd player. If it doesn't live up to your standards, sell it.

 

[earnmyturns]

I have tried this, and while not awful, it is not as good as pure dsd obviously. Just bite the bullet and buy a good sacd player. If it doesn't live up to your standards, sell it.

Why "obviously"? The main advantage of DSD is that it matches the operation of delta-sigma DACs. But the delta-sigma DAC parts likely to be in a non-absurd-cost SACD player will be much lower quality overall than 88.2/24 PCM through Yggdrasil.

 

[MisterMoJo]

Why "obviously"? The main advantage of DSD is that it matches the operation of delta-sigma DACs. But the delta-sigma DAC parts likely to be in a non-absurd-cost SACD player will be much lower quality overall than 88.2/24 PCM through Yggdrasil.

I just am saying that when you do the conversion from DSD to PCM for the yggy, that is not a lossless conversion. You loose information. The resolution becomes lower.

 

[gefski]

But would it be the SACD player or whatever DSP was done to create the Redbook layer from the SACD layer? I don't have a SACD player, but I have several 88.2/24 digital albums from SACD remasters (for example, from the SACD remasters of several "Living Stereo" Fritz Reiner/CSO recordings) that sound superlative through my Yggdrasil. I don't have their Redbook versions, though.

I’m curious, which ones? I’ve enjoyed the (Redbook) Reiner “Pines..., Fountains..., and Debussy La Mer” for years, probably more than any other “Pines...” I’ve got. Not because of superlative recording quality though. We’re moving, but after settling and unboxing, I’ll poke around for other remasters.

 

[earnmyturns]

I just am saying that when you do the conversion from DSD to PCM for the yggy, that is not a lossless conversion. You loose information. The resolution becomes lower.

But does it sound worse? What you are throwing away are well above Nyquist limit frequencies, and way below cosmic background radiation noise levels. In any case, the original digital remastering would have been done in PCM (which you can do DSP on), not DSD. AFAIK, the 88.2/24 PCM files you can get for those remasters are all you need, the SACD version is just a derivative format.

 

[earnmyturns]

I’m curious, which ones?

Favorites: Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra; Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta; Hungarian Sketches. Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade, Op. 35; Stravinsky: Le Chant du Rossignol. Both 88.2/24 PCM associated to remastered SACD issues. I do not know the exact data path for each, but they sound gorgeous.

 

[FLTWS]

Favorites: Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra; Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta; Hungarian Sketches. Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade, Op. 35; Stravinsky: Le Chant du Rossignol. Both 88.2/24 PCM associated to remastered SACD issues. I do not know the exact data path for each, but they sound gorgeous.

The original RCA LP's were great sounding and went thru many re-issues first as LP's and later, especially, as CD's. I have many of the; original "Living Stereo" CD series, the "Papillon Collection", the "Red Seal - Digitally Remastered" series, and the "Gold Seal" series. All reissues. There may even be more I'm not aware of. But the recent SACD releases of the original issue "Living Stereo" are my favorites. I'm only listening to the CD layer but I think the sound is as good as you can get from the original series. And just in case you want more there's "Analogue Productions" remasterings of these original classic "Living Stereo" releases as well, equally impressive.

The most recent Mercury Living Presence" series is also excellent.

These are the labels I grew up with as a kid, my father had bunch of them.

 

[Randolf711]

Right now I’m mentally in the camp that Mike and Jason are focusing on the right signal path, PCM. It really seems that DSD, despite releases from Mofi and AP, isn’t gaining steam. While blu-ray releases at 24/96 and Hi Res files from services like Qobuz are actually gaining more traction. So for now, I think I wait for the Schiit Transport.

 

[Randolf711]

Update: I got a cheapish SACD player (Yamaha bd a1060) and have been comparing some SACDs (balanced outs to the Freya+) to their ripped red book companion (played back through the Yggy). First, it is important for my to say burning a CD and playing it through the player is very different. I’ve read so many people say “bits are bits.” That has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read now that I have properly experienced a cheap “transport.” The ripped copies do not sound nearly as good as playing it through the spinner.

In most cases, the red book layer (even though it is just ripped) sounds better than the SACD layer. The SACD isnt as clean or dynamic. However, there are some discs that sound very good and others worth selling.

My Mofi hybrid discs sound excellent with the SACD layer. Just beautiful. SACD would be an interesting format to get if you don’t want to spend a ton of money equipment but want to spend it on music. Specifically, I listened to Monk’s Dream and was very impressed.
The discs I listened to and felt the Yggy was superior were The Nat King Cole Story (AP), Cannonball Adderley Somethin Else (AP), Yes- Close to the Edge (AF). I also had fun with Paul Simon’s You’re The One (an HDCD) and playback through the Yggy was unbelievable on that disc.
I feel satisfied waiting for the Schiit Transport. I had considering getting a 1-2k SACD player and using the Yggy for the redbook layer. I think SACD is fine but not worth investing in if you already have the Yggy. I know my comparison wasn’t fair (since the Yamaha is far cheaper) but if SACD is supposed to be a superior format it didn’t show it in this shoot out.

 

[MisterMoJo]

I am not sure why a no-name dac in that player would be able to compete with a yggy?

 

[Randolf711]

I am not sure why a no-name dac in that player would be able to compete with a yggy?

In every review it is a highly thought of SACD player that plays native DSD through balanced outs. It is comparable to the Oppo’s and in some cases said to sound better. And as I said, I was very well aware of the short-comings and that isn’t technically a fair fight.