[sea79]

I agree with what @MatthewWeflen said unless you are going to tune with EQ. Z7m2 respond well to EQ. IMHO and to my ears, out of the box the Z7m2 sound neutral or flat across the frequency spectrum. With some peaks. You will need more clean power if tuning for a fuller, more dynamic, and harder hitting bass and sub bass presentation.

Will really depend on what you will want the overall performance or presentation to be. A more powerful amp like an Asgard 3 (for SE), allows the Z7m2 to be tuned however you like and with sufficient headroom. If only minor tuning of the bass region then less power is required. I have used Z7m2 with 1W sound card, ASUS 1W MB built-in sound card, off iPhone 12 mini directly, Dragon red and black (and several other 1W+ DAC amps), Asgard 3 and Jotunheim 2. IMHO the z7m2 perform differently (way better) with more powerful amps, when one is EQ tuning.

The purpose of the purchase is to get a good and deep bass so i am planing to use EQ and probably make some improvement like some other pads etc. I've read in this tread there are some improvement that can be made relatively easily so i probably will try getting the best bass i can. I believe that 70mm drivers can give good and deep bass.
Do i need in that case some more powerful Amp?
Another question is will i get better bass and especially subbass than give my Denon AH-d5200 with Yaxi pads or Campfire Cascade.

 

[cdacosta]

The purpose of the purchase is to get a good and deep bass so i am planing to use EQ and probably make some improvement like some other pads etc. I've read in this tread there are some improvement that can be made relatively easily so i probably will try getting the best bass i can. I believe that 70mm drivers can give good and deep bass.
Do i need in that case some more powerful Amp?
Another question is will i get better bass and especially subbass than give my Denon AH-d5200 with Yaxi pads or Campfire Cascade.

The answer to the first question is yes. I posted the mods I did awhile ago in this thread and it makes a big difference. When tuning for bass, it is more taxing on the amp. The additional power and headroom makes a big difference. The more powerful amps like Asgard 3 will have more control of the large drivers.

The second question is I do not know as I am not familiar with the other gear you mentioned.

 

[sea79]

The answer to the first question is yes. I posted the mods I did awhile ago in this thread and it makes a big difference. When tuning for bass, it is more taxing on the amp. The additional power and headroom makes a big difference. The more powerful amps like Asgard 3 will have more control of the large drivers.

The second question is I do not know as I am not familiar with the other gear you mentioned.

Thank you. I've read your posts, i have not read all the thread yet but what i read from you is inspiring. That was really good job.
As i read Asgard 3 has 3.5W into 32 ohms and it is a lot! So, should an Amp for Z7M2 be so powerful?
How many is enough? I thought that 1-2 watt amps that it is more than you need for any situation, but 3.5W looks like a huge power.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Sorry, but the idea that extra power in the amp makes for better performance is pure audio mythology. If the power is unused, it has zero influence because it is unused.

As long as the amp operates without audible distortion and provides enough power for the dynamic swings your playback volume requires, you are golden. Absolutely producing low frequency information takes more power, but that itself does not mean unused power helps.

Explain how unused power exerts it's effect? It can't possibly make any difference. If your amp can swing and provide everything the load requires, even a million watts of power in excess won't matter.

 

[cdacosta]

Thank you. I've read your posts, i have not read all the thread yet but what i read from you is inspiring. That was really good job.
As i read Asgard 3 has 3.5W into 32 ohms and it is a lot! So, should an Amp for Z7M2 be so powerful?
How many is enough? I thought that 1-2 watt amps that it is more than you need for any situation, but 3.5W looks like a huge power.

The short answer is yes, you want an amp with more power than you will need. There are two reasons for this “when EQ tuning, especially bass”:

1) For serious bass range adjustment, to keep from clipping you will need to turn down the pre-amp from EQ. This requires a more powerful amp so you still have plenty of headroom.

2) The more headroom you have, the amp does not have to work as hard. The closer you get an amp to its limits, the more noise will be generated and this will dramatically effect sonic performance.

The same was for my Audeze LCD-XC headphones. Will run off anything. But to get the headphones to sound magnificent, EQ and enough power to drive the headphones with plenty of headroom is very important. The Asgard 3 was just enough, but with limited headroom. The Jotunheim 2 balanced is the ticket to get me what I want without even pushing the amp. With more power, the amp’s control of the drivers is very apparent.

 

[cdacosta]

Sorry, but the idea that extra power in the amp makes for better performance is pure audio mythology. If the power is unused, it has zero influence because it is unused.

As long as the amp operates without audible distortion and provides enough power for the dynamic swings your playback volume requires, you are golden. Absolutely producing low frequency information takes more power, but that itself does not mean unused power helps.

Explain how unused power exerts it's effect? It can't possibly make any difference. If your amp can swing and provide everything the load requires, even a million watts of power in excess won't matter.

I will be happy to share my experience and thoughts on this subject. You or anyone else may disagree, this is my experience. More headroom allows for an amp to reproduce dynamic swings in the recording without pushing the amp to distortion. When EQing full strong sub-woofer like bass that is musical, detailed, fast, tight and hits hard, when the recording calls for it, the amp must have the headroom. These peaks in power requirements most amps will handle poorly unless the headroom is there. When amps get pushed to their limits the audio reproduction and control over the drivers are very noticeable/audible. When an amp gets pushed close to their limits they distort and have less control of the drivers.

If EQing and slightly adjusting/tuning bass and listening at low to moderate volume levels, then yes I agree with you.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Well, sort of. Yes an amp can be pushed to audible distortion, but that is really no where near as common as people often suggest. Again, if you are equalizing and there is lots of draw on the amp, but you have unused power it won't help.

Note that I said if the amp is operating without audible distortion and can handle the dynamic peaks, that implies adequate headroom. The moment you exceed the headroom to be stable with oddles of extra power, it will never exert any influence as it remains unused.

I'm not saying that an amplifier can't be underpowered, but I am saying that investing in way too much power is not required. Fortunately higher power designs are much, much more affordable than they were even five years ago, so sure, if you can afford the extra power, go for it.

 

[cdacosta]

Ok let me be more specific of what I am trying to say or share. This is "my take" from experience. I am obviously coming from the point of view that if someone buys a nicer pair of headphones and amplifier is looking for "optimal performance". Or at least the best they can get out of the purchase for the money. Not just that it plays music. This can get really deep and complicated, and is not necessary for such a simple topic. Out of the box a z7m2 in my experience will sound ok with 1 watt at 50ohm amp. This is a peak continuous watt rating. But clean continuous power is likely in the .5 - .6 watt range or so. If one does not push the amp by EQing or listen at higher volumes this will be fine.

What I am referring to is having an amp that will deliver clean power at the power levels required during dynamic peaks and have power in reserve. You are correct that the extra power in reserve is not being used. But that is the point. To make sure whatever you ask the amp to do, it always is able to perform at peak performance level. By not stressing an amp it will also be more reliable and have a longer life cycle. Now when an amp is asked to deliver power that is close to its "clean continuous power output level" then the performance of the amp suffers. This happens quicker with lower priced amps. Now when EQ tuning a headphone for a strong bass response, much more power is needed from the amp to be able to keep the same level of control over the drivers. Also when an amp is audibly distorting you are already way over its "peak performance" threshold.

So lets look at say an Asgard 3. According to Schiit's website, the specs are maximum power of 2.5w RMS per channel at 50ohms. When I EQ tuned the z7m2 (after modding them) I was listening on high gain from 11pm to 1pm or so on the volume pot. At 2pm or so distortion can be heard. I needed more power to do what I wanted the system to do. That is when I went to the Jot 2 (even more power) and have not looked back or for anything else. On the Jot 2 balanced out 9pm to a max 11pm is where I listen to my system. Was the same for the Audeze LCD-XC, which I am listening to now. When the Asgard 3 was pushed many aspects of the sonic performance suffered. Yes the Asgard 3 could have provided more power, but not clean controlled power. Hopefully this makes sense.