[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I kind of regretted getting rid of it - so I eventually relented and bought the HE/V set.

Wow, dude, where have you been man? Not to be a sap, but we've missed you (well, maybe it's only me). But yeah, I appreciate the thoughts. I can see how you've come to your opinion and came to reacquire the kit - and your advice is the same that I received from Tom (bozebuttons) earlier today (to hold onto it a bit longer). But more on that latter part later.

I guess I wanted to hear the advice to hold onto it longer and give it a chance, as I've been awful eager to sell the set-up as there's a pretty (actually, a very pretty) little camera I've been considering that would have easily eaten up the proceeds with a lens or two. But the money for a current production camera will come and go (and waiting for this particular beauty is a good thing), but a minty HE90 is a little more difficult to acquire.

So what happened man? You didn't sell the O2 did you?

Best,

-Jason

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jason, Are you going to the international meet? I probably should check. Anyway, my setup will be there - If the HE90's don't sound good to you in this setup with one of the headphones (all three are from different era's, old, old-new, newish), then you likely won't get the HE90's to your liking. Neil

Cool, it's good to see you're bringing the entire shebang to this year's National meet. I have heard pretty much the same rig on more than a few occasions, but I'm not really a believer in meet impressions as really determining whether a system or component is right for me. I need at least 3 weeks to begin to forumulate my thoughts on any piece of equipment (call me slow...)

Anyhow, thanks to bozebuttons, I've heard Orpheus from time to time on various systems (and let's not forget Alex, whose HE90 I fed with a iPod through the Blue Hawaii and SRM-313, as well as tk_suki, my old Tokyo head-fi'er in arms with his HE90 and oh-so-familiar (at least to me) Meridian G08), though today was more perhaps the most useful to me, as I've gotten to spend a few weeks with my HE90 and amp, and familiarize myself with it, before comparing against a few other differences in sources, amps and headphones in a leisurely mini-meet at Tom's place today.

I remember well over a year ago being introduced to the setup, back when your ES-1 was but a prototype in the mind of Mikhail and bozebutton's, and the HE90 didn't particularly impress me then. But HE90's never impressed me that much, not at various meets, not in my own rig, not even today (though it is very very good). But to some degree, in the past, I don't think I was really listening all that carefully to it, as I had thought that I owned one and would be hearing it with a new amp soon enough (hah, that was rather foolish of me, wasn't it?) and that I really needed time with it (3+ weeks) to really feel out what I liked or didn't like about it. At the time, I thought I'd have my Chord DAC64 + Blu as a source, which I find to be far more detailed and resolving and less rotund than the m902 to try the Aristaeus out with, but what can I say. Sometimes the timing just doesn't work for you.

But anyway, Tom was gracious enough to have a few of us over again today to have some serious listening with the rigs and have comparisons with my dinky little amp...

I guess there are a few things I took from today... I guess in order of importance:

1. Those fried donut things were damn tasty.

2. Tom's got a great dog. I want a dog.

3. The Meitner, obviously, was far more my preference in sound over my little m902. This was expected and the improvement was in significantly more resolution and thusly texture and detail.

As before, despite the impressive velvet glove nature of the Zana Deux (powerful, yet still gentle/kind, at least superficially), I can't say I like the Qualia 010 with the EMM labs source. I have my preferences, and both the EMM labs source and my old Chord DAC64+Blu weren't there for me. Perhaps the overly rotund nature of the m902 works for me with the Qualia 010.

4. The sample variance between Tom's original HE90 and my new run version was significant. I preferred Tom's. I agree that it was meaningfully more open. But as with many things today, many of the differences were more preferential rather than absolute "better"/"worse" in nature. I wouldn't take from my statements that the new HE90 wasn't as good as the old one. But I would also say that I wouldn't say, on long-term impressions, that I would strongly prefer one over the other as being "better". All I'll say now is that today, in their current states, with the tubes that were in them, I preferred the cleaner, less diffuse sound of Tom's older one.

5. I'm not going to say which of the amps (maxed ES-1, HEV90, Aristaeus) was "better". I'm not going to say that they were equal either - I'd need to live with them for extended periods to have an opinion on that. But I thought they were different. And I can only speak to the ES-1 with the tubes that bozebuttons had in them today - he had two pairs, though we spent most of the warmed-up time with the Mullards. In brief, I prefered the ES-1 for some things, the HEV90 for others and the Aristaeus for yet others. Overall, if I had to take a system home today based on my preferences, with the tubes that were in them today, based on just these short-term mini-meet style listening impressions, I would have taken the EMM labs source (duh), the Aristaeus and the older HE90 (with the greater bass).

6. But none of this really answers my question of 010 versus HE90, despite one being there today, faithfully fed by the undoubtedly wonderful Zana Deux. It's just I can't listen and compare a 010 rig directly with a HE90 rig or any other rig. The 010 is too demanding a mistress - it wants me to listen to it fully, exclusively, for a decent amount of time before settling into sounding good. Today, as is customary when I do side by side comparisons, the 010 sounded hard and piercing at times relative to the HE90 because I wasn't in the mindset for its sound. But I know this has no relevance on how good it sounds when I'm listening to music when I want to, how I want to, at home. Personally, though - when I think of where I want my head-fi journey to stop next, it's not the 010 or HE90 rig I feel like maximizing - it's the K 1000 rig that I think about the most in terms of what next - amp, source whatnot. But I think that's because I'm happy with my humble 010 rig (despite hearing and knowing there is better out there) and I'm undecided on the HE90, and I do not have the skills to maestrobate a Melos for my HP1000.

7. Yet again, we confirmed the Aristaeus does pretty well with the Omega 2. Actually, today it impressed me less than it did last. I've heard the Omega 2 sound absolutely wonderful, and today's experience didn't quite match that. But still, it did do some very good things with the Omega 2, especially for those who like their bass, and I think the amp should be considered by those who want a nice Omega 2 system. Especially w/ an amp in the form factor as the Aristaeus.

Oh, - last, but not least, jpelg's Ultrasone sounded darned good. We all need to reconsider Ultrasone goodness, at least those of us who may have dismissed it from less than stellar initial impressions from the Edition 7, or other versions.

Anyhow, okay I need to get to bed. But as always, thanks to bozebuttons for being such a fantastic host. One of the great things about mini-meets at Tom's house is that you're never lacking for headphones!

Hang on, here's a pict of the treasure chest:

And this isn't even half the booty!

Best,

-Jason

 

[Icarium]

Great post. I fully agree that Qualias need at least 5-20 minutes to get settled in and it's good to know that you like a rotund source for them... I definitely feel that my current source fits that description as wel

Anyway, as far as the Orpheus impressions go... interesting that there is a significant variance between the older/newer Orpheuses given how few were made.

Well while as you mentioned a meet is not the same as listening to something for weeks in one's home... after this one can hardly say you haven't checked out a good majority of the setups that one might desire to check out.

Glad you are giving it more time though!

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, - last, but not least, jpelg's Ultrasone sounded darned good. We all need to reconsider Ultrasone goodness, at least those of us who may have dismissed it from less than stellar initial impressions from the Edition 7, or other versions.

You should listen to the Edition 9

 

[Thelonious Monk]

this is a cleverly disguised post to make an off-topic comment: carl, every time i see you post you mention a new tube that i've never heard of.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is a cleverly disguised post to make an off-topic comment: carl, every time i see you post you mention a new tube that i've never heard of.

Who me? Never! I just would like to hear a Qualia driven by RE134s, that's all.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway, as far as the Orpheus impressions go... interesting that there is a significant variance between the older/newer Orpheuses given how few were made.

There is a simple explanation for this. First off the mylar in the diaphragm is highly tensioned and will loose some of that tension over the decade and a half since the phones were made. This will give them more bass, with deeper extension and a more relaxed presentation. The highs might suffer a bit but the mylar is so this it shouldn't be very noticeable.

Secondly the resistive coating can start to crack and drop of the diaphragm. This depends on what chemicals were used, how they bond with the mylar and how regularly the phones have been used. The more the phones are used the better because it exercises the film. I don't know what Sennheiser used to coat but this has been a problem with the Quad ESL and some other stats'. This will cause the sound to change somewhat but it varies from speaker to speaker.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, dude, where have you been man? Not to be a sap, but we've missed you (well, maybe it's only me). But yeah, I appreciate the thoughts. I can see how you've come to your opinion and came to reacquire the kit - and your advice is the same that I received from Tom (bozebuttons) earlier today (to hold onto it a bit longer). But more on that latter part later.

*Oscar-style blubbing speech*
I...missed...you... bwaaaaaaaaaahglugsob.
Or I could just be 'done' of course

I'm still not a regular fixture on these here forums. There may be a portable I'd want to comment on every now and again and stuff to sell / buy but I think it's fair to say that unless something stunningly new emerges I'm pretty much done for headphones. I can now walk into a headphone store and walk out empty-handed

Quote:

I guess I wanted to hear the advice to hold onto it longer and give it a chance, as I've been awful eager to sell the set-up as there's a pretty (actually, a very pretty) little camera I've been considering that would have easily eaten up the proceeds with a lens or two. But the money for a current production camera will come and go (and waiting for this particular beauty is a good thing), but a minty HE90 is a little more difficult to acquire.

Yeah, and that's the thing. I waited a while to get my system shipped to me, and the previous owner wasn't quite as anal as I tend to be about describing the cosmetic condition of the system. 'Like New' doesn't mean 'Well used but well looked after'. It wasn't for example quite the same experience as lifting the Meier HE90 out of the box. Nevertheless it is in good condition so I'm not exactly crestfallen but I did pay over the odds given that it's not mint. What I did get though is a 'broken in' system. The changes in the sound are subtle enough not to trigger any definitive memories, and perhaps it was my imagination but on first listen it did sound like the very first time I listened to jatinder's system, which was when I first really wanted an Orpheus.

Quote:

So what happened man? You didn't sell the O2 did you?

Yes indeed, got rid of both. Gave a set to a client and sold the other to a friend. As much as I find them a very respectable pair of phones and extremely comfortable, I was constantly fidgeting with them one way or another and I decided that wasn't what I wanted from a stationary headphone now - the HE90 is pretty much 'wear and forget' to an extent, as is the K701 which I use on the PC's.

 

[tjkurita]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cool, it's good to see you're bringing the entire shebang to this year's National meet. I have heard pretty much the same rig on more than a few occasions, but I'm not really a believer in meet impressions as really determining whether a system or component is right for me. I need at least 3 weeks to begin to forumulate my thoughts on any piece of equipment (call me slow...) Anyhow, thanks to bozebuttons, I've heard Orpheus from time to time on various systems (and let's not forget Alex, whose HE90 I fed with a iPod through the Blue Hawaii and SRM-313, as well as tk_suki, my old Tokyo head-fi'er in arms with his HE90 and oh-so-familiar (at least to me) Meridian G08), though today was more perhaps the most useful to me, as I've gotten to spend a few weeks with my HE90 and amp, and familiarize myself with it, before comparing against a few other differences in sources, amps and headphones in a leisurely mini-meet at Tom's place today. I remember well over a year ago being introduced to the setup, back when your ES-1 was but a prototype in the mind of Mikhail and bozebutton's, and the HE90 didn't particularly impress me then. But HE90's never impressed me that much, not at various meets, not in my own rig, not even today (though it is very very good). But to some degree, in the past, I don't think I was really listening all that carefully to it, as I had thought that I owned one and would be hearing it with a new amp soon enough (hah, that was rather foolish of me, wasn't it?) and that I really needed time with it (3+ weeks) to really feel out what I liked or didn't like about it. At the time, I thought I'd have my Chord DAC64 + Blu as a source, which I find to be far more detailed and resolving and less rotund than the m902 to try the Aristaeus out with, but what can I say. Sometimes the timing just doesn't work for you. But anyway, Tom was gracious enough to have a few of us over again today to have some serious listening with the rigs and have comparisons with my dinky little amp... I guess there are a few things I took from today... I guess in order of importance: 1. Those fried donut things were damn tasty. 2. Tom's got a great dog. I want a dog. 3. The Meitner, obviously, was far more my preference in sound over my little m902. This was expected and the improvement was in significantly more resolution and thusly texture and detail. As before, despite the impressive velvet glove nature of the Zana Deux (powerful, yet still gentle/kind, at least superficially), I can't say I like the Qualia 010 with the EMM labs source. I have my preferences, and both the EMM labs source and my old Chord DAC64+Blu weren't there for me. Perhaps the overly rotund nature of the m902 works for me with the Qualia 010. 4. The sample variance between Tom's original HE90 and my new run version was significant. I preferred Tom's. I agree that it was meaningfully more open. But as with many things today, many of the differences were more preferential rather than absolute "better"/"worse" in nature. I wouldn't take from my statements that the new HE90 wasn't as good as the old one. But I would also say that I wouldn't say, on long-term impressions, that I would strongly prefer one over the other as being "better". All I'll say now is that today, in their current states, I preferred the cleaner, less diffuse sound of Tom's older one. 5. I'm not going to say which of the amps (maxed ES-1, HEV90, Aristaeus) was "better". I'm not going to say that they were equal either - I'd need to live with them for extended periods to have an opinion on that. But I thought they were different. And I can only speak to the ES-1 with the tubes that bozebuttons had in them today - he had two pairs, though we spent most of the warmed-up time with the Mullards. In brief, I prefered the ES-1 for some things, the HEV90 for others and the Aristaeus for yet others. Overall, if I had to take a system home today based on my preferences, I would have taken the EMM labs source (duh), the Aristaeus and the older HE90 (with the greater bass). 6. But none of this really answers my question of 010 versus HE90, despite one being there today, faithfully fed by the undoubtedly wonderful Zana Deux. It's just I can't listen and compare a 010 rig directly with a HE90 rig or any other rig. The 010 is too demanding a mistress - it wants me to listen to it fully, exclusively, for a decent amount of time before settling into sounding good. Today, as is customary when I do side by side comparisons, the 010 sounded hard and piercing at times relative to the HE90 because I wasn't in the mindset for its sound. But I know this has no relevance on how good it sounds when I'm listening to music when I want to, how I want to, at home. Personally, though - when I think of where I want my head-fi journey to stop next, it's not the 010 or HE90 rig I feel like maximizing - it's the K 1000 rig that I think about the most in terms of what next - amp, source whatnot. But I think that's because I'm happy with my humble 010 rig (despite hearing and knowing there is better out there) and I'm undecided on the HE90, and I do not have the skills to maestrobate a Melos for my HP1000. 7. Yet again, we confirmed the Aristaeus does pretty well with the Omega 2. Actually, today it impressed me less than it did last. I've heard the Omega 2 sound absolutely wonderful, and today's experience didn't quite match that. But still, it did do some very good things with the Omega 2, especially for those who like their bass, and I think the amp should be considered by those who want a nice Omega 2 system. Especially w/ an amp in the form factor as the Aristaeus. Oh, - last, but not least, jpelg's Ultrasone sounded darned good. We all need to reconsider Ultrasone goodness, at least those of us who may have dismissed it from less than stellar initial impressions from the Edition 7, or other versions. Anyhow, okay I need to get to bed. But as always, thanks to bozebuttons for being such a fantastic host. One of the great things about mini-meets at Tom's house is that you're never lacking for headphones! Hang on, here's a pict of the treasure chest: And this isn't even half the booty! Best, -Jason

Thanks for the impressions, Jason. Jpelg, lan, Tom, do you want to chime in as well? I'd love to read more impressions from any of you guys. How long did the meet end up going for?

You've thought about an Airtight for the K1K, I'm sure. How many different amps have you heard with it? The K1K amp situation is one that has been on my mind a great deal as well. I've got one on the way that I will be auditioning. We'll see what happens. It seems like the top options here on head-fi are limited to the Firstwatt, Redwine and Airtight. Some rather significant price differences there... I wouldn't mind expanding the search a little bit. There's been a little talk about the nOrh se-9 and maybe the Cary 300sei. But who knows. If the Pass offerings really are the best, the next step might be to gain access to a couple here in NYC.

Like you, I need a long time with gear before I really consider changing it or making major additions. I think I will need at least a year with the K1K before I decide what to do with it. You've had your "big three" (qualia, k1k, he90) for a while now, and maybe you're starting to settle on your favorite (k1k).

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Didn't Greg (gplamer) describe a very noticable bass-rolloff after his amp had been on for some time?" Yes he did. I never heard about the resolution. Maybe gpalmer will visit today and enlighten us?

I've haven't found a resolution yet. I was home for one weekend with the setup and have been in Orlando since working. I was going to try to give it a listen this evening but I think I'll probably run out of time. I listened to it for a half dozen songs this weekend but didn't hear the issue so far.

 

[gpalmer]

OK, a few random thoughts.

1) I can see the M902 pairing nicely with the Qualia setup, it would take a bit of the edge off but it's not the source for this system. It's a pleasant, happy little sound that is great for long periods of listening but in this system, with your goals, it's so wrong it's hysterical. I like the HE-90 and that system would put me to sleep pretty quick... Glad to see your impressions of the EMM gear since that really helps me get a fix on where you're at. the EMM seems very neutral to me and a great reference point.

2) The HE-90 is very strong in the way it reproduces music effortlessly. The Qualia is very strong at being fast and energetic. It would be easy to see how someone with a taste for the 010 might not click on the HE-90. I'm guessing you might not ever "get" the HE-90 and if so, time to sell! I get the 010 but I don't care for it enough to buy one but I do like the HE-90 enough to eat the higher cost of buying it. You might be the opposite!

3) I would play around with the tube rolling aspect some. I think you will find that there are some significant differences though this is a guess, no one I know of has proven the theory yet.

4) Electrostatics and tubes both take time to break in. I think the differences you're hearing with bozebuttons set of HE-90s is probably the time he's spent breaking them in, not necessarily a difference in construction.

 

[neilvg]

I have three HE90's and they all sound different. I did this little experiment where I bow out the bottom of the cups a little to create a little more space between my ears and the diaphragm... however I have to keep my fingers in place to get the effect. It thins out the midrange just a bit, but it adds a lot of bass... and its not particularly bloated, just more impactful and fuller... it seems to have more time to develop with the added distance. Also the soundstage is wider and the presentation feels less closed in the bubble of the enclosed headphones.

But anyway, I think the headphones change in sound subtley but continuously. Hopefully once my ES-1 arrives i'll be able to play with a plethora of tube options as well as a comparison to the HEV.

Neil

 

[gpalmer]

I'm not clear from your post. What's your gut feeling on the differences between the HE-90s. Different from day one or different because of different wear?

I hate to say it but it looks like my HE-90s are going back. I ran into some more of the issues with the bass dropping out. This time I tried tapping the earcup that was dropping out and sure enough it comes right back so I would guess the membrane is sticking to the stator. I chatted with Hirsch about it and it seems to match the symptoms he was experiencing exactly so tomorrow we talk to Sennheiser. I can only hope my experience is as painless as he described!

 

[Jon L]

jjcha, what music do you listen to? Let me rephrase that. What music MUST you have recreated as gloriously as possible?

Not having tried Aristaeus, I had been assuming Aristaeus must not be a good match for HE90 from your comments, but since you are not greatly impressed by HE90/ES-1, which I think "should" be good enough for mere mortals, I think most of us are simply not seeing what you are desperately trying to achieve specifically with the music YOU love.

As an aside, even though I love my K1000 setup(s) and can live with them long-term, I could never live long term with a Qualia setup (alone)... And that's despite me being in the accuracy/speed/resolution camp.

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think most of us are simply not seeing what you are desperately trying to achieve specifically with the music YOU love.

In my experience, a few certain headphones, usually in the right setup, have the right balance of superlative resolution, accurate, but not oversharpened, transient detail, 3D imaging and proper separation that you get the sense of a concrete, tangible voice, presence in your head. I think I've described it as artificially realistic - artificial because a headphone will never (well without a binaural recording perhaps) accurately reproduce realistic sound, but if you give up the proper placement in space, you can get an artificially realistic sound. One that's startling in its tangibility, one that gives the illusion of a physical form that obviously cannot exist. This isn't having say Diana Krall whispering in your ear, it's about having a real tangible voice, as opposed to a reproduction of one, that exists in your head.

This is my sound. I don't particularly care about bass or seductive mids or even sibilance or a hard sound - I can put up with deficiencies in each of the aforementioned and more, but give me something tangible. I don't care about tonal accuracy, extension, balance. Just give me something that has a texture and image width and depth that touches on the illusion of the real.

Don't get me wrong, the HE90 does pretty well in this area. I just want more. I get a fair bit more out of my humble m902/010 rig. In other ways (neither have the imaging), I get more of this out of the HP1000 and SR-X rigs.

If you're not getting this from your K 1000 (and having listened to the K 1000 out of a Dynamight, it was okay, but not that great in this area), you really ought to seek out amps that can create it. I remember using a Musical Fidelity X-10 tube output with my el-cheapie upgraded T-Amp, and it began to hint at it with the K 1000.

Best regards,

-Jason