[fetoll123]

So i have three earbuds at the moment.

Moondrop chaconne
Tgxear Serratus
Tgxear Sunniva

Love all of them but would love another set that is sort of on the brighter/ more neutral side. The bass is just above where i want it to be on the Serratus. Any tips?

 

[baskingshark]

Budget to begin with is probably up to about 400 dollars, but cheaper is fine also.

Sources are Astell and Kern SR25 and Shanling H7, the latter being the one I use most nowadays.

Earbuds come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and fit is a major issue as alluded to by boss @samandhi above. Bad fit = loss of bass and poor sound quality. Doesn't matter how well a earbud is praised, if it can't fit you, or you get discomfort, then it a moot point.

So personally, I wouldn't jump to a $400 USD earbud as the first step. Just my 2 cents, it may probably be worthwhile to consider some cheaper sub-$20 USD earbuds of various sizes.

@furyossa and @WoodyLuvr (credit to them) have compiled an interesting collection of earbud shapes in this hobby to peruse: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122

Once you like a certain shape, maybe then considering upgrading from there? BTW $400 for earbuds is easily considered top of the line (TOTL). Even $100 is TOTL in the earbud world. In contrast $400 for IEMs and headphones is probably just midFI, wherease $50 USD earbuds can be considered midFI.

But anyways, for classical, I personally like the Yincrow RW-2000 for that. It is a U-shaped balanced set, does most departments well. For cheaper, I like the DUNU Alpha 3 and NiceHCK EB2S (non pro) for classical.

 

[samandhi]

So i have three earbuds at the moment.

Moondrop chaconne
Tgxear Serratus
Tgxear Sunniva

Love all of them but would love another set that is sort of on the brighter/ more neutral side. The bass is just above where i want it to be on the Serratus. Any tips?

Well, anything other than the Chaconne would be a sidegrade or downgrade comparatively for classical music IMHO..

You could always give a try to any of the three that are fairly neutral, but have more quantity of bass than the Chaconne. They are the FiiO FF5, DUNU Alpha 3, and the Yincrow RW3000.

 

[samandhi]

Earbuds come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and fit is a major issue as alluded to by boss @samandhi above. Bad fit = loss of bass and poor sound quality. Doesn't matter how well a earbud is praised, if it can't fit you, or you get discomfort, then it a moot point.

So personally, I wouldn't jump to a $400 USD earbud as the first step. Just my 2 cents, it may probably be worthwhile to consider some cheaper sub-$20 USD earbuds of various sizes.

@furyossa and @WoodyLuvr (credit to them) have compiled an interesting collection of earbud shapes in this hobby to peruse: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122

Once you like a certain shape, maybe then considering upgrading from there? BTW $400 for earbuds is easily considered top of the line (TOTL). Even $100 is TOTL in the earbud world. In contrast $400 for IEMs and headphones is probably just midFI, wherease $50 USD earbuds can be considered midFI.

But anyways, for classical, I personally like the Yincrow RW-2000 for that. It is a U-shaped balanced set, does most departments well. For cheaper, I like the DUNU Alpha 3 and NiceHCK EB2S (non pro) for classical.

Well put...

I forgot about the OG EB2S (non Pro)... Good recommendation.... That has me thinking that for about the same price(ish) you could also get the Lun Sheng Aeolian Bells. The caveat is that they don't come with a cable, but it is standard MMCX, and they are built like a tank. These have a sort of diffuse field tuning as well, with a bit of boost to the bass (not a ton though).

Interesting that you chose the RW2000 for classical. While they are a VERY good set, I find them a bit bassy for classical; however, they COULD be used to good effect for that type of music also.

 

[cottaudio]

Welcome to the flathead earbuds thread!

What is your budget? What type of sound signature do you enjoy? Do you have a preference in types of shells? These are fairly important questions because there is a huge variety of buds that you can choose from.

Having said that, the first set that comes to mind when thinking of classical is the Moondrop Chaconne. These are (hands down) the best for classical music. Keep in mind that these are very niche, and they will probably not sound good to you with any other type of music (though they also MAY sound good to you). The closest headphone that I can compare these to is the OG HD800 but without the upper spikes; meaning that they are indeed very revealing but are not fatiguing.

There are plenty of others that I could recommend as well, but this is a good start if you want to go straight to TOTL, rather than experiment...

I’ll quote myself for budget and sources and stuff:

Budget to begin with is probably up to about 400 dollars, but cheaper is fine also.

Sources are Astell and Kern SR25 and Shanling H7, the latter being the one I use most nowadays.

Sound signature wise I tend to appreciate clarity without fatigue. That is I’m not after big bass or hyper warmth, but prefer anything from warm-neutral to neutral-bright, so long as it’s not raking my eardrums out.

In terms of shells I have no idea so I’ll be on the learning path for a while there.

I appreciate your recommendation of the chaconne as it seems an interesting prospect. One that I’ll ponder and maybe see if I can get a hold of.

I think that if I were to get an earbud such as the chaconne and really be taken by it that I’d end up in the rabbit hole of trying other stuff either way. I don’t have the “one and done” personality - unfortunately for my bank account aha

 

[cottaudio]

Earbuds come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and fit is a major issue as alluded to by boss @samandhi above. Bad fit = loss of bass and poor sound quality. Doesn't matter how well a earbud is praised, if it can't fit you, or you get discomfort, then it a moot point.

So personally, I wouldn't jump to a $400 USD earbud as the first step. Just my 2 cents, it may probably be worthwhile to consider some cheaper sub-$20 USD earbuds of various sizes.

@furyossa and @WoodyLuvr (credit to them) have compiled an interesting collection of earbud shapes in this hobby to peruse: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122

Once you like a certain shape, maybe then considering upgrading from there? BTW $400 for earbuds is easily considered top of the line (TOTL). Even $100 is TOTL in the earbud world. In contrast $400 for IEMs and headphones is probably just midFI, wherease $50 USD earbuds can be considered midFI.

But anyways, for classical, I personally like the Yincrow RW-2000 for that. It is a U-shaped balanced set, does most departments well. For cheaper, I like the DUNU Alpha 3 and NiceHCK EB2S (non pro) for classical.

Ok I see so I need to get down the ear shape first probably, that makes sense. Thanks for those extra recommendations, it might make sense for me to grab a couple slightly less expensive models and listen/feel them for a while to see what’s up. Many thanks for your insight.

Well put...

I forgot about the OG EB2S (non Pro)... Good recommendation.... That has me thinking that for about the same price(ish) you could also get the Lun Sheng Aeolian Bells. The caveat is that they don't come with a cable, but it is standard MMCX, and they are built like a tank. These have a sort of diffuse field tuning as well, with a bit of boost to the bass (not a ton though).

Interesting that you chose the RW2000 for classical. While they are a VERY good set, I find them a bit bassy for classical; however, they COULD be used to good effect for that type of music also.

Thanks for another recommendation, I’ll check out the Lun Sheng you mention.

I think from what you’ve all said it might be better to grab a few slightly less expensive models and try out a few so that I can make more informed decisions later on.

Ok then I’ll keep you posted on what I go for and of course how I hear them as and when I do.

Much appreciated all!!

 

[samandhi]

I’ll quote myself for budget and sources and stuff:

Sound signature wise I tend to appreciate clarity without fatigue. That is I’m not after big bass or hyper warmth, but prefer anything from warm-neutral to neutral-bright, so long as it’s not raking my eardrums out.

In terms of shells I have no idea so I’ll be on the learning path for a while there.

I appreciate your recommendation of the chaconne as it seems an interesting prospect. One that I’ll ponder and maybe see if I can get a hold of.

I think that if I were to get an earbud such as the chaconne and really be taken by it that I’d end up in the rabbit hole of trying other stuff either way. I don’t have the “one and done” personality - unfortunately for my bank account aha

Yeah, I saw the budget thing after I posted my question.. haha

By fatiguing, do you mean mid to upper treble, or the standard 3K-5K boost (upper mids/lower treble)? they are different fatiguing areas that affect different people. For instance, I am VERY sensitive to 3K-5K, but unless there is physical sibilance in mid to upper treble, being bright doesn't bother me too much.

You're welcome. I just thought I would start with the best you can get for that genre of music, as just that... a starting point. Can you get stuff from Aliexpress where you are? They are also available from other Chinese "online" stores as well (example: Shenzen Audio).

I know what you mean. While I have pretty much reached my end game with buds, it has taken me years, and LOTS of purchasing to get there... hahaha

Welcome to the "Rabbit Hole".....

 

[cottaudio]

Yeah, I saw the budget thing after I posted my question.. haha

By fatiguing, do you mean mid to upper treble, or the standard 3K-5K boost (upper mids/lower treble)? they are different fatiguing areas that affect different people. For instance, I am VERY sensitive to 3K-5K, but unless there is physical sibilance in mid to upper treble, being bright doesn't bother me too much.

You're welcome. I just thought I would start with the best you can get for that genre of music, as just that... a starting point. Can you get stuff from Aliexpress where you are? They are also available from other Chinese "online" stores as well (example: Shenzen Audio).

I know what you mean. While I have pretty much reached my end game with buds, it has taken me years, and LOTS of purchasing to get there... hahaha

Welcome to the "Rabbit Hole".....

By fatiguing, for me it’s the bite or sibilance in the mid to upper treble that gets to me. Actually, it’s not that I can’t listen to it so much as it draws me out of the music as i usually find it distracting more than uncomfortable.

Yeah i can use Aliexpress, I live in South Korea (British-for my sins) so it’s usually relatively speedy also to order from them.

As for the buds’ shells, how different are the shapes/fits? Are there any ways to improve on a bud’s given fit once bought, or is it the case that once you have it that’s your lot?

 

[samandhi]

@cottaudio One more thing (related to the question about what you define as "fatiguing"). Roughly, at what volume do you find yourself listening to most often? This becomes important with some recommendations as they are NOT so much fatiguing at lower levels, but when the Munson Curve kicks in can really become either shouty or sibilant; depending on your problem area. Most already recommended are not too bad anyhow, but I thought I would ask.

 

[ttorbic]

By fatiguing, for me it’s the bite or sibilance in the mid to upper treble that gets to me. Actually, it’s not that I can’t listen to it so much as it draws me out of the music as i usually find it distracting more than uncomfortable.

Yeah i can use Aliexpress, I live in South Korea (British-for my sins) so it’s usually relatively speedy also to order from them.

As for the buds’ shells, how different are the shapes/fits? Are there any ways to improve on a bud’s given fit once bought, or is it the case that once you have it that’s your lot?

Yooo Koreans represent! Welcome to flatters

Both @baskingshark and @samandhi have given you excellent pointers. My two cents:
1. You will find two suppliers of "popular" earbuds: companies (e.g., Fiio, Yincrow, Venture Electronics, DUNU), and DIYers (TGXEAR, Rikubuds, LREY, etc). Interestingly, I think only a couple of folks have heard a good bunch from both camps (maybe @Ace Bee, @Kenyon, @jwilliamhurst). I personally have mainly stuck with DIYers from the get-go: you normally get excellent customer service, good to great price-to-performance, and customisation options. All the DIYers I've mentioned are great to talk to. Jim (maker of TGXEAR) is a classically trained Korean-Canadian artist, and I personally love his sets for classical and jazz.

2. Fit fit fit: don't waste money on a TOTL or >150 USD set and realise you can't stand the fit! Having said that, there are accessories that can help improve the fit: silicone wings, silicone rings, thicker or thinner foams.

3. Look at classified ads on Headfi, HifiGuides, and Discord channels. There are often at least a few good bargains up for grabs. E.g., Ace Bee is selling sets at like 50%+ discounts.

Otherwise, welcome again and do share your experience!

 

[cottaudio]

@cottaudio One more thing (related to the question about what you define as "fatiguing"). Roughly, at what volume do you find yourself listening to most often? This becomes important with some recommendations as they are NOT so much fatiguing at lower levels, but when the Munson Curve kicks in can really become either shouty or sibilant; depending on your problem area. Most already recommended are not too bad anyhow, but I thought I would ask.

A good question. For me I mean fatiguing not in the sense that I get actual discomfort so much as I get worn down mentally by something like sibilance distracting from my listening. Like a persistent mosquito at night leading to a poor nights sleep.
I’m not sure if that makes sense aha, it does to me at least…
I’m not such a loud listener. I used to be when I was younger but I trained myself to listen at quieter levels gradually.
I always blame playing in orchestras for my previously loud listening, as being a bassoonist I often had the bloody trombones right in my earhole…

 

[samandhi]

By fatiguing, for me it’s the bite or sibilance in the mid to upper treble that gets to me. Actually, it’s not that I can’t listen to it so much as it draws me out of the music as i usually find it distracting more than uncomfortable.

Yeah i can use Aliexpress, I live in South Korea (British-for my sins) so it’s usually relatively speedy also to order from them.

As for the buds’ shells, how different are the shapes/fits? Are there any ways to improve on a bud’s given fit once bought, or is it the case that once you have it that’s your lot?

AH! Ok, then most all recommendations (maybe even all) will proabably not be sibilant, or too aggressive in that area. Most flathead earbuds are tuned with a boost to 3K-5K to compensate for the lack of treble tuning anyhow (except maybe the Chaconne, RW3000, Aeolian Bells, EB2S, etc...). Good to know.

Oh, fantastic! Then you can pretty easily procure anything from the list of recommendations already tossed out there...

There is nothing that can be done about comfort per se', but there are ways to make them fit better (or at least make them stay put). Here are a few:

Spoiler

wings will keep them from moving around but if the buds are uncomfortable, these don't help much unless the discomfort is due to rubbing.

Silicone rings don't "fill" your ears as much as wings might, but will also help keep them stable in your ears. Again, won't compensate for discomfort.

Over-ear hooks are probably the most comfortable option to keep buds in place. Nothing goes in the ear, but once again, if the buds are uncomfortable to begin with the hooks won't fix that, just keep them from moving or falling out.

Hope that was somewhat helpful?!

 

[cottaudio]

Yooo Koreans represent! Welcome to flatters

Both @baskingshark and @samandhi have given you excellent pointers. My two cents:
1. You will find two suppliers of "popular" earbuds: companies (e.g., Fiio, Yincrow, Venture Electronics, DUNU), and DIYers (TGXEAR, Rikubuds, LREY, etc). Interestingly, I think only a couple of folks have heard a good bunch from both camps (maybe @Ace Bee, @Kenyon, @jwilliamhurst). I personally have mainly stuck with DIYers from the get-go: you normally get excellent customer service, good to great price-to-performance, and customisation options. All the DIYers I've mentioned are great to talk to. Jim (maker of TGXEAR) is a classically trained Korean-Canadian artist, and I personally love his sets for classical and jazz.

2. Fit fit fit: don't waste money on a TOTL or >150 USD set and realise you can't stand the fit! Having said that, there are accessories that can help improve the fit: silicone wings, silicone rings, thicker or thinner foams.

3. Look at classified ads on Headfi, HifiGuides, and Discord channels. There are often at least a few good bargains up for grabs. E.g., Ace Bee is selling sets at like 50%+ discounts.

Otherwise, welcome again and do share your experience!

Wow thanks so much for the welcome!! Very much appreciate it.
Haha I’m as much Korean as if David Beckham decided to move to Seoul, that is, I am but a Brit abroad. Nevertheless thank you for the fabulous welcome!

Yes, from what you and others have said I think getting and trying a variety of pieces is my way forward! I’m looking forward to falling down this rabbit hole.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

 

[cottaudio]

AH! Ok, then most all recommendations (maybe even all) will proabably not be sibilant, or too aggressive in that area. Most flathead earbuds are tuned with a boost to 3K-5K to compensate for the lack of treble tuning anyhow (except maybe the Chaconne, RW3000, Aeolian Bells, EB2S, etc...). Good to know.

Oh, fantastic! Then you can pretty easily procure anything from the list of recommendations already tossed out there...

There is nothing that can be done about comfort per se', but there are ways to make them fit better (or at least make them stay put). Here are a few:

Spoiler

wings will keep them from moving around but if the buds are uncomfortable, these don't help much unless the discomfort is due to rubbing.

Silicone rings don't "fill" your ears as much as wings might, but will also help keep them stable in your ears. Again, won't compensate for discomfort.


Over-ear hooks are probably the most comfortable option to keep buds in place. Nothing goes in the ear, but once again, if the buds are uncomfortable to begin with the hooks won't fix that, just keep them from moving or falling out.

Hope that was somewhat helpful?!

Yesss so helpful thank you.
Writing it all down so that I’ve got all this knowledge to hand when I need it.
Thanks so much.
I must say, the community in this thread is particularly welcoming and kind.

 

[samandhi]

Yesss so helpful thank you.
Writing it all down so that I’ve got all this knowledge to hand when I need it.
Thanks so much.
I must say, the community in this thread is particularly welcoming and kind.

You are very welcome!

And, yes, it has been that way for many years. The "band of brothers" in here is VERY helpful. I remember when I first came here years ago, very fondly.

We don't have many (if at all) of the (sometimes) "Head-Fi" Elitists in here...

@ttorbic also make some excellent points as well. The good thing is that even though flathead earbuds are indeed a niche product, there are MANY ways to go; none of them horrible IMHO. It then comes down to simply dialing in exactly what you want and are happy with.

I also think that most of the recommendations would synergize well with your Shanling, but maybe not so much on the A&K as it presents as a fairly bright source to begin with.