[iFi audio]

I have encountered a problem with the Phantom. My unit will no longer recognize that a bias card is inserted, so the unit will not output sound to the e-stats plugged in. I have contacted support, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had issues with their unit? I always wondered if having bias cards to be inserted in a slot is a good idea. I'm surprised at this as I don't use the Phantom that often.

If you have yet to find a resolution to this, I recommend dropping our support a ticket here...

https://support.ifi-audio.com/

I am sure our great folks there can get you sorted out.

Cheers!!

 

[MartussDer]

I found the iESL in combination with a range of good high-voltage conventional amps to be the most satisfactory option out there for use with my SR-009S (including STAX and the usual run of 'boutique' drivers). So I'm not surprised to read that the Phantom also performs well.

does the phantom can use the tubes with electrostatics too or only solid state?

 

[MartussDer]

If you have yet to find a resolution to this, I recommend dropping our support a ticket here...

https://support.ifi-audio.com/

I am sure our great folks there can get you sorted out.

Cheers!!

I'm not Mr.Bubba Hyde, but given that this is in essence the iCAN Pro & iESL Pro in one box (and without the flexibility of the iESL to use alternative amplifiers), just read a review of iCAN Pro for anything non-ESL and iCAN Pro + iESL Pro for anything ESL.

Thor

A question. The solid state stage for headphones in phantom is totally Class A? Does ifi phantom have some active cooling system or is totally passive? because for me is impressive how in that small size they can dissipate all the heat for a 15 watts in class A operation.
Mart.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

A question. The solid state stage for headphones in phantom is totally Class A? Does ifi phantom have some active cooling system or is totally passive? because for me is impressive how in that small size they can dissipate all the heat for a 15 watts in class A operation.

I cannot answer to the Phantom, only the iCAN Pro, which it is based upon.

The iCAN Pro Amplifier runs all stages in Class A, however the the output stage is limited to 10V SE / 20V Bal output voltage and 84mA in Class A, after which the amplifier will "slide" into Class A/B.

This is not uncommon in "Class A" amplifiers. And it is also common to list the maximum Class AB power as output power without stating that it AB not A.

In balanced mode full output (20V) is available in Class A for impedance's of 240 Ohm and higher and in SE for 120 Ohm load impedance. For a 50 Ohm headphone you can get around 4.2V in Class A in either mode.

However, as Amir's tests show, the slide into class AB Power is not the limiting factor, instead it is the overall low amount of negative feedback, as distortion starts to rise over the noise at levels where the Amplifier still operates in Class A.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...fi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review.12247/

Thor

 

[MartussDer]

I cannot answer to the Phantom, only the iCAN Pro, which it is based upon.

The iCAN Pro Amplifier runs all stages in Class A, however the the output stage is limited to 10V SE / 20V Bal output voltage and 84mA in Class A, after which the amplifier will "slide" into Class A/B.

This is not uncommon in "Class A" amplifiers. And it is also common to list the maximum Class AB power as output power without stating that it AB not A.

In balanced mode full output (20V) is available in Class A for impedance's of 240 Ohm and higher and in SE for 120 Ohm load impedance. For a 50 Ohm headphone you can get around 4.2V in Class A in either mode.

However, as Amir's tests show, the slide into class AB Power is not the limiting factor, instead it is the overall low amount of negative feedback, as distortion starts to rise over the noise at levels where the Amplifier still operates in Class A.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...fi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review.12247/

Thor

Thanks a lot of for your response.


A have other question. For hifiman susvara to generates 110spl, we need only 5.5volts but a lot current 91mA at 60 ohms.
I know ican has enough power neccesary (we need only 500mW @60 ohms) but, do you think the ifi has exactly 91mA at 5.5 volts in 60 ohms in class A operation?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

A have other question. For hifiman susvara to generates 110spl, we need only 5.5volts but a lot current 91mA at 60 ohms.
I know ican has enough power neccesary (we need only 500mW @60 ohms) but, do you think the ifi has exactly 91mA at 5.5 volts in 60 ohms in class A operation?

Probably not. As noted, above 84mA (+/- circuit tolerance) the circuit slides into Class AB. So you probably only get around 90%+ in Class A, so the last Decibel may be Class AB.

But does it matter? Class A is not magic. It is one tool designers can use to reduce crossover distortion (eliminating by virtue of never "crossing over" between devices. It is also "Brute force".

Of course, especially Class B and also incorrectly implemented Class AB have been reliably demonstrated to cause audible fidelity impairments also judged quite pernicious and "amusical" by experienced listeners. So we need to avoid generating these distortions. Class A is the brute force way of doing it, but it would mean a 15W/channel Amplifier creates 60W Heat (or more) per channel. Understanding the various mechanisms that cause "crossover distortion" allows us to minimise distortion with finesse instead of brute force.

When I designed the iCan Pro I designed the output in a somewhat unconventional manner. It is either a Diamond Transistor, Sziklay Circuit or EF2 emitter follower which is what you commonly see.

I used a Class A FET buffer that presents that amplifying circuit with a constant and very high load Impedance, eliminating any variable loading of the amplification circuit by varying load or zero crossing - which causes extra distortion.

It remains SE Class A all the way to the base of each output pair. The transistor pair where one eventually switches off is not deeply reverse biased. The base circuit for the two output pairs is low impedance and has a large value capacitive bypass. As such it behaves not that different from a Class A circuit in the view of the load or driving circuit, in fact it may be even better than badly done Class A, depending on the detailed design.

Class A, Balanced, Low THD, etc. et al, are all just marketing terms that have no relevant or reliable correlation with sound quality. There is no proven reliable link between general circuit topology, device choice, measured SINAD/THD&N and most other measurements and subjectively perceived sound quality.

Reading reviews is pointless. The reviewer usually is biased and is not conducting controlled listening tests in any way. Even if a (famous) reviewer hates a product I find interesting I would not discount it as a result, equally, a product I find flawed does not improve with 100 Rave reviews (for me).

Reading objective tests is pointless. They have zero proven correlation with perceived sound quality.

Reading the Net of a Million Lies and having lengthy debates about the last 10%, 1%, 0.1% of something is pointless.

The only real way judge is to listen, without prejudice, level matched and ideally blind (but not ABX or any similar protocol).

Any other biased listening tests is also pretty pointless.

It is important to not have expectations, or you will simply hear what you expect to hear.

So if you expect pure "Class A" to sound warm and cuddly and "Class AB in the last 10% of the power envelope or for the last 1dB" to sound edgy and bright, that is what you will hear. And if I do the test blind and tell you that the ÄB in the last dB Amp" is actually "pure class A" and the other way around for the "Class A" Amp that is what you will hear:

Technical University Dresden - Chair of Cognitive & Clinical Neuroscience: " NEWS - WE HEAR WHAT WE EXPECT TO HEAR Jan 15, 2021 WE HEAR WHAT WE EXPECT TO HEAR"

Thor

 

[MartussDer]

Probably not. As noted, above 84mA (+/- circuit tolerance) the circuit slides into Class AB. So you probably only get around 90%+ in Class A, so the last Decibel may be Class AB.

But does it matter? Class A is not magic. It is one tool designers can use to reduce crossover distortion (eliminating by virtue of never "crossing over" between devices. It is also "Brute force".

Of course, especially Class B and also incorrectly implemented Class AB have been reliably demonstrated to cause audible fidelity impairments also judged quite pernicious and "amusical" by experienced listeners. So we need to avoid generating these distortions. Class A is the brute force way of doing it, but it would mean a 15W/channel Amplifier creates 60W Heat (or more) per channel. Understanding the various mechanisms that cause "crossover distortion" allows us to minimise distortion with finesse instead of brute force.

When I designed the iCan Pro I designed the output in a somewhat unconventional manner. It is either a Diamond Transistor, Sziklay Circuit or EF2 emitter follower which is what you commonly see.

I used a Class A FET buffer that presents that amplifying circuit with a constant and very high load Impedance, eliminating any variable loading of the amplification circuit by varying load or zero crossing - which causes extra distortion.

It remains SE Class A all the way to the base of each output pair. The transistor pair where one eventually switches off is not deeply reverse biased. The base circuit for the two output pairs is low impedance and has a large value capacitive bypass. As such it behaves not that different from a Class A circuit in the view of the load or driving circuit, in fact it may be even better than badly done Class A, depending on the detailed design.

Class A, Balanced, Low THD, etc. et al, are all just marketing terms that have no relevant or reliable correlation with sound quality. There is no proven reliable link between general circuit topology, device choice, measured SINAD/THD&N and most other measurements and subjectively perceived sound quality.

Reading reviews is pointless. The reviewer usually is biased and is not conducting controlled listening tests in any way. Even if a (famous) reviewer hates a product I find interesting I would not discount it as a result, equally, a product I find flawed does not improve with 100 Rave reviews (for me).

Reading objective tests is pointless. They have zero proven correlation with perceived sound quality.

Reading the Net of a Million Lies and having lengthy debates about the last 10%, 1%, 0.1% of something is pointless.

The only real way judge is to listen, without prejudice, level matched and ideally blind (but not ABX or any similar protocol).

Any other biased listening tests is also pretty pointless.

It is important to not have expectations, or you will simply hear what you expect to hear.

So if you expect pure "Class A" to sound warm and cuddly and "Class AB in the last 10% of the power envelope or for the last 1dB" to sound edgy and bright, that is what you will hear. And if I do the test blind and tell you that the ÄB in the last dB Amp" is actually "pure class A" and the other way around for the "Class A" Amp that is what you will hear:

Technical University Dresden - Chair of Cognitive & Clinical Neuroscience: " NEWS - WE HEAR WHAT WE EXPECT TO HEAR Jan 15, 2021 WE HEAR WHAT WE EXPECT TO HEAR"

Thor

thanks for answering.

I understand many of the things you tell me. And since class A is the classic way to avoid "zero crossing" distortion, that's why I was asking about this implementation. Not because I think there is something magical behind class A haha.

However, I totally ignores/ignored all the mechanisms implemented in this equipment to reduce distortion. Now you have clarified some for me.

And I also understand that our brain is influenced by what we see, etc, to hear what it wants. But I think at this point, I'm more than aware of that.

I just want to know more about the product before spending 3700 euros on it. What worries me most is how much "clean" current it is capable of delivering for a susvara that requires "few" voltage. I currently drive my susvara with a 3x GT soloist, and it's not bad, but since I also have electrostatics, the phantom sounds very attractive and at a low price if we really get the best of 2 worlds in one package.

Best

Mart

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I just want to know more about the product before spending 3700 euros on it. What worries me most is how much "clean" current it is capable of delivering for a susvara that requires "few" voltage. I currently drive my susvara with a 3x GT soloist, and it's not bad, but since I also have electrostatics, the phantom sounds very attractive and at a low price if we really get the best of 2 worlds in one package.

Suggestion, buy a 2nd original iCAN Pro, for the Susvara there will be no realistic difference between this and the expensive option. I regularly see iCAN Pro come up at around 1,000 USD, don't pay extra for "signature" BTW on that particular product.

In my opinion, unless you have quite a number of different headphones including Electrostatic ones, there is no point to get the "Phantom" over an iCAN Pro. So get the 2nd Hand iCAN Pro, reduce electronic waste, save the planet and all that.

Or save more and get a used Zen CAN Signature and add a 50 USD 5V/4A linear PSU from Aliexpress.

Thor

 

[BTD1]

So, I received notice that my 10 month old Phantom that I sent in for repair because the bias cards stopped working, has been repaired. The main board was replaced. I am not an electrical engineer so I am wondering what happened? The unit was less than a year old, and I used it infrequently. I have more than a few amps, Dacs, etc, and I have not experienced such a failure before. Could there be a design problem with the Phantom? I have never had a problem with the IDSD Pro, ICAN PRO, or IESL. I will say that IFI support promptly responded to my support ticket and the repair made within a week. I wonder if I get a new 1 year warranty on the new main board? I am wondering if anyone else has had problems?