Cayin iDAP-8 streamer and iDAC-8 DAC
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
zoidbb
100+ Head-Fier
This is incorrect. The I/V stage and line driver stage both use transistors.
Z_Showmaster
Member of the Trade: Zeppelin & Co.
Er, yes? And then, in “Tube” mode, the tubes output directly in XLR. And in “Trans” mode, the op-amps are used.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2015
- Posts
- 2,304
- Likes
- 2,230
Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, so I'll ask now... I noticed the iDAP-8 comes with Google Play installed. Does this mean I can install Tidal or Apple Music on the streamer?
Last edited:
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
PopZeus
Yes, I was able to use Google Play store to load Neutron Player, Amazon Music and SirusXM Radio streaming to my IDAP-8 without any issues
Been a little bit of a road as when I first got the device it did not sound as good as my N7 plugged into my DAC, but after working with Cayin (Thank You John) and MusicTeck (Thanks Andrew) I was able to sort some things out and its now sounding as good as any other device I've been feeding my DAC into my headphone amp without issues
Working on a write up and will post soon
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2015
- Posts
- 2,304
- Likes
- 2,230
Interesting...I would like to know more about how the sound evolved for the better.
Yeah, this is looking to be an interesting competitor to Eversolo A6, maybe. At least to me, since I don't necessarily want an onboard DAC for my streamer. Now we need a version in black!
Last edited:
ethr
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2014
- Posts
- 16
- Likes
- 29
really enjoyed this stack in the zmf booth at axpona 2024 - slanted screen is 
- hyper mode and tubes on the dac give this some alternate flavors
- hyper mode and tubes on the dac give this some alternate flavors
Announcement of Cayin iDAP-8 Firmware v1.6
https://en.cayin.cn/drive/9/18/632.html
New Functions and System Optimization
- Replace the Audio Setting menu on the Main desktop with a new ”Music Setting” menu on the Main Desktop, which provides more playback and music-related control features
- Add a new feature in the local Music Player to convert DSD512 to PCM
- Add a new feature in local Music Player to allow users to specify the output sampling rate (44.1kHz,88.2kHz,176.4kHz,352.8kHz) when converting DSD to PCM
- Repair the problem that TADIL cannot exit from the playback interface after starting playback.
- Other optimization and modification.
A Kind Reminder to iDAP-8 Firmware Upgrade
Each version of firmware might contain minor differences, consumer please decide on your own accord whether you need to update the firmware of your iDAP-8 Network Player.
Under normal circumstances, firmware upgrades will not cause any damage to user information, but Cayin cannot exclude the possibility of upgrade failure due to malfunction or any other reason. For these reasons, we strongly suggest you remove all storage devices connected to the network player before you perform the firmware upgrade.
The iDAP-8 firmware cannot be used in other products, and the firmware from other products cannot be used in iDAP-8
Firmware Upgrade Procedure
The v1.6 involves system-level updates that can only be completed through manual firmware procedures. OTA firmware update is not available to this firmware. In addition, please uninstall all third-party APPs and perform a Factory Reset (System Settings > System > Reset options > Erase all data(factory reset)) before upgrading this firmware
- Download the latest upgrade firmware from the Support Center of the Cayin website, please make sure you select “Personal Audio” on this page. (https://en.cayin.cn/technical/9/18.html)
- copy the downloaded firmware zip package to the root directory of the SD card, please do not unzip the package file.
- Insert the SD card into the SD card slot of iDAP-8, please make sure you have at least 2GB storage space in your SD card.
- Select "System Settings" on the main menu, at the System menu page select “System” and then select "System Updates” to enter the firmware update interface;
- Click on "┇" in the upper right corner of the firmware update interface;
- In the pop-up window, select "local upgrade".
- Navigate to the root of the SD card, select the firmware file that needs to be installed;
- Select "Install Now".
- Select “OK” in the pop-up dialog box, the system will install the new firmware! Now.
Attention
- Do not operate the machine during firmware upgrade
- Please delete/remove the firmware file from the SD card after the firmware upgrade
- Please update your Music Library after the firmware upgrade
Last edited:
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
Andy Kong
Announcement of Cayin iDAP-8 Firmware v1.6
https://en.cayin.cn/drive/9/18/632.html
New Functions and System Optimization
- Replace the Audio Setting menu on the Main desktop with a new ”Music Setting” menu on the Main Desktop, which provides more playback and music-related control features
- Add a new feature in the local Music Player to convert DSD512 to PCM
- Add a new feature in local Music Player to allow users to specify the output sampling rate (44.1kHz,88.2kHz,176.4kHz,352.8kHz) when converting DSD to PCM
- Repair the problem that TADIL cannot exit from the playback interface after starting playback.
- Other optimization and modification.
A Kind Reminder to iDAP-8 Firmware Upgrade
Each version of firmware might contain minor differences, consumer please decide on your own accord whether you need to update the firmware of your iDAP-8 Network Player.
Under normal circumstances, firmware upgrades will not cause any damage to user information, but Cayin cannot exclude the possibility of upgrade failure due to malfunction or any other reason. For these reasons, we strongly suggest you remove all storage devices connected to the network player before you perform the firmware upgrade.
The iDAP-8 firmware cannot be used in other products, and the firmware from other products cannot be used in iDAP-8
Firmware Upgrade Procedure
The v1.6 involves system-level updates that can only be completed through manual firmware procedures. OTA firmware update is not available to this firmware. In addition, please uninstall all third-party APPs and perform a Factory Reset (System Settings > System > Reset options > Erase all data(factory reset)) before upgrading this firmware
- Download the latest upgrade firmware from the Support Center of the Cayin website, please make sure you select “Personal Audio” on this page. (https://en.cayin.cn/technical/9/18.html)
- copy the downloaded firmware zip package to the root directory of the SD card, please do not unzip the package file.
- Insert the SD card into the SD card slot of iDAP-8, please make sure you have at least 2GB storage space in your SD card.
- Select "System Settings" on the main menu, at the System menu page select “System” and then select "System Updates” to enter the firmware update interface;
- Click on "┇" in the upper right corner of the firmware update interface;
- In the pop-up window, select "local upgrade".
- Navigate to the root of the SD card, select the firmware file that needs to be installed;
- Select "Install Now".
- Select “OK” in the pop-up dialog box, the system will install the new firmware! Now.
Attention
- Do not operate the machine during firmware upgrade
- Please delete/remove the firmware file from the SD card after the firmware upgrade
- Please update your Music Library after the firmware upgrade
Thank You for posting
Can confirm following the above the install of the FW update for the IDAP-8 was pretty painless
The most painful part was putting personalized settings for both factory and Play Store apps back in
I just got it to where I had my preferences for apps like Neutron just right. Glad I wrote them down, and all is good now
Only was able to take a quick listen but so can't confirm any SQ fixes.
Hoping any future FW updates will NOT require a full factory reset first.
Still working on a write up, and may go through some listening again as without some of the tweaks I did, I almost returned the unit, but working with John at Cayin and Andrew at Musicteck, we got it sorted out. Part of the problem was loading music, as my early unit shipped without a manual, it was a little painful and as-is out of the box, the SQ was not as good as a N7 player plugged directly into my desktop stack.
With the changes I found it is on par with the N7 plugged into my stack, but now with the convenience of a non battery, non DAC desktop player going into my external DAC, which is what I was looking for.
Thanks again for posting the FW update!
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
Apolgies up front, this is a long post
It's been about a month and half since I received in, what is one of the first IDAP-8's from Musicteck, and about a month since I put an initial post above. As promised there putting up my thoughts on the IDAP-8
Thanks to Andrew for all of the assistance in not only getting me the unit but working with me on some early "teething" pains we worked through with John from Cayin. (More Below)
I also want to mention this device was purchased (full retail), it was not sent to me and I have NOT received any compensation for my thoughts or what I have written, it is all IMO.
I can get a little too detailed and long winded in how I write, so…
The bottom line is I'm VERY happy with the device, as it checks all of the boxes of what I was looking for to feed my desktop stack (Cayin HA-3A Desktop Tube amp, using all NOS vintage tubes, connected to a Musician Pegasus R2R desktop DAC, via i2S connection)
For anyone considering this player 2 things, stick with it, "Burn In" is a real thing here, as "Sound Quality" improved with min 50 hours of burn in, AND the latest FW update made a huge difference with the onboard SW, but you may want to also try an 3rd party/external player SW as I found it to be much better (IMO)
Now the details….
I wanted to get a desktop player to replace the portable DAP that was connected to my desktop stack (was using a Cayin N-7 1 bit all to DSD portable player, via installed Neutron Player software and connected to the all digital I2S connection of my Pegasus DAC) as making sure the battery was charged on the DAP, often cut into the total listening time, but the sound was so good out of this output, it set a pretty high bar.
How did I get here?
Been more of a portable user having sold all of my home gear years ago, and thought I’d just settle when not traveling on a home setup that included the Cayin C9 amp I could output the Lotoo and now Cayin DAPs into. (The C9 started me down the road of using Cayin HW, and yes there is a differnece between the C9 and a proper dekstop amp, but it is very personal and IMO here. Posted thoughts on the difference in the C9 forum)
I've slowly come to enjoy various hardware from Cayin due to their sound tuning, usability and for me, value, moving from previous go to companies like Lotoo and others.
At last year's Can Jam Sothern California, went in thinking I'd be looking at a new portable DAP (L&P R2R or N30LE with AKM), and maybe some cables or new IEM's,
Nope, I ended up purchasing new over the ears headphone
Having listened to the Meze Elite previously, just kept coming across it at various tables, coupled with some of the nicest tube amps at the show and not hearing anything I liked more than my current IEM’s decided to finally upgrade my over the ears and decided to purchase the Elites, and via this search in turn at Can Jam ended up auditioning various desktop tube amps. (Resisted buying a desktop tube amp to date knowing I'd go fully down the rabbit hole of tube rolling, but gave in after Can Jam) When I got the Elites home realized they absolutely benefited from a little more power than the PAW600 or N8ii (that I had at the time) provided, and just after Can Jam, decided it was time to buy a amp and decided on a Tube Amp. Looking at the costs of available tubes, decided on the HA-3A as it gave me the broadest range of tubes that would not end up costing me more than amp itself (while I would have loved to get a 300B based amp, but the cost of those tubes was enough to turn me away – I like to think my budget for audio gear is good, but NOT that good. Some of the 300B Tubes will set you back $5K to $10K)
How this all came about and decided on the HA-3A over a Feliks amp I was considering is a whole other story, and for another place (Forum) and time. The fact I bought a Cayin is more of what was available, the cost of tube rolling with respective amps, and what was in my price range and NOT that I wanted Cayin as a FYI. This ended up being a bonus as the Cayin HA-3A amp has been one of the better investments I've made this past year.
After Can Jam, and for almost half a year after, I used a Cayin N7 directly into the HA-3A via a 4.4mm balanced to dual 3 pin XLR connector, but made the mistake of borrowing an external DAC, and then via the information on both the HA-3A and Meze Elite Forum, ended up with the Pegasus DAC, and now that I was essentially bypassing some of the DAC section on the N7 thought about just getting a desktop player.
Borrowing/demoing various players, they either left me wanting for sound or functionality (Many of the on board DAC's implementations were not to my liking) or the player SW was not as customizable as I wanted.
I came up with a short list of "requirements" from these auditions for a desktop player. These were:
- On board storage of 1TB min with ability for expansion to allow a local library of FLAC and high bitrate MP3s or high bit/high res offline streaming files
- i2S connection. I liked the idea of the digital connection which also passed the clock signals to the DAC for proper timing.
- Though I have very few DSD files, ability to support up to DSD512 and if possible direct 1bit sound files natively.
- Ability to run output from a computer via at min USB-3.x (SS or Super Speed rating) interface for streaming apps as needed
- Ability to bypass the local DAC if one was onboard
- Both gigabit wired and 802.11AC wireless LAN connections with the ability to turn off the wireless
(as I know and have experienced the wireless adding RF “noise” to the playback on either the tube amp or external DAC, abilty to kill it and Bluetooh was a must)
- Optional: Ability to load apps from either Apple or Google Play Stores and run apps locally
- Optional: Ability to run and configure locally Neutron or similar layer SW and NOT just use the local player SW as sent out.
(These last two points while high on my list I made optional else it would have cut out almost every desktop player available)
One of the closest players I came across to meet my criteria was when I was able to borrow another users IDAP-6 and it came close, but still had some areas I thought could be improved on.
Was about to pull the trigger on the Eversolo DMP-8 as while it did NOT meet all of the above, and I'd probably have to stop using the Pegasus R2R DAC I've come to enjoy, as a direct connect to the Pegasus using an older Eversolo product was not as good as using the onboard DAC, and the DMP-8 did not look to change this connection.
I then saw the announcement from Andy about the 8-8-8 stack with the new IDAP-8 with many of the improvements over the IDAP-6 I was looking for and held off.
Thank You's to those who were able to listen to, use and/or evaluate the new Cayin 8-8-8 stack and the IDAP-8 and posted impressions. It prompted me to look for "now on sale" announcements for the IDAP-8 from the usual companies I like to work with. Musicteck was one of the first to post the "now offering Pre-Order" for the IDAP-8 and jumped in with a leap of faith it would do what I wanted.
Shortly after purchase got the shipping confirmation from Musicteck and quickly realized my IDAP-8 was coming directly from Cayin in China.
When it arrived I noticed there was no user guides, manuals or warranty info in the box. It was literally the IDAP-8 nicely packed and properly sealed up and the accessories only
A quick email to Andrew who reached out on my behalf to Cayin and was told the English guide, manual and warranty card were not ready and the device was shipped without it, and that I would receive all of that once available/shortly.
(NOTE: Had I had the manual there were some words in there that would have prevented some of the issues I’ll write about below. Much of this is admitted user error, but having a manual would have helped not run into these issues)
Again Thank You Andrew (Musicteck) and John (Cayin) for working with me to get over these issues. Before these issues were resolved, I was already discussing with Andrew what I would need to do, to return the device. Luckily I have NOT had to do this.
Was able to figure out both the HW and the settings of the player SW without the manual and started using the player. The SW because of the consistency with Cayin’s other players
Added in a 2TB SSD drive to the drive bay on the IDAP-8 and figured out in the SW where I needed to format the drive for use with the players SW (With audio players I've found it always a good practice to have your player format the storage media to prevent issues later down the road with file read/writes).
Then I ran into some issues of the device being able to see MicroSD cards from the N7 and futzing with the settings, got the player to see the MicroSD card, but it could NOT see the files on the card stating the format was wrong, preventing me from being able to move the files onto the onboard drive. Using the connection to the SS (Super Speed) marked USB port above the LAN connection, the IDAP could NOT see the PC and visa versa. The short term fix was remove the SSD drive, and luckily the IDAP-8 used exFAT to format the drive, so was able to just do a drive to drive transfer on my PC from the MicroSD card to the SSD drive.
That done, and the drive added back into the iDAP-8 was finally in business as the player could now see the files on the internal SSD drive (though it still could NOT see the PC or the MicroSD card)
Quickly found the sound quality with the Cayin/Hiby SW was not the same as the N7. Stumbling through the settings icon, and triple checked my settings on both the Cayin and HIby SW, while there was “some” improvement, still NOT to the level I expected or heard from the N7 portable player.
Quickly pivoted to opening the Google Play Store and loaded Neutron Player.
It was able to see both the MicroSD card and the internal SSD drive (OK there seems to be a bug in the Cayin/Hiby SW) but even Neutron was having some issues with the MicroSD card. So could not use the MicroSD card, but no issues from the internal SSD drive, so OK thought there is probably a FW update coming.
Listening to my files on both the N7 using the Neutron Player, and the IDAP-8 back to back into my desktop stack (both using the I2S connection) there was still a difference in sound.
Quick Emails to Andrew with my findings above, a question if new FW was coming soon before the 30 day return timing and WHEN a manual might be coming as perhaps I did not configure something correctly. He again reached out to Cayin, and return email from John with questions came quickly. They both worked with me through these initial days and setup. More than I’ve seen other companies do. Kudo’s to both.
We all decided a min of 25 hours and preferably 50 hours of burn in to see if that made a difference.
I let the player play in a loop into my external DAC with a dummy load connected to its output to mimic the AMP/Headphone combo. (Did not want to have a tube amp run unattended none stop)
24/25 hours, no changes in sound quality.
50 hours, a noticeable difference. For bass/sub bass it was now starting to come around, and the highs started to also extend a little.
I let it continue to burn in and around 80 hours, the sound was much closer to the N7 with the Cayin/Hiby SW. With the Neutron SW it was also almost equal to the N7
Went into Neutron’s settings and started playing with various settings for the HW like resampling/oversampling, 64bit processing etc, and now the IDAP-8 was as good as the N7 or maybe a little better (settings are different between the 2 players)
My guess with the I2S connection its all about the clock timing that gets passed to the internal DAC vs. having everything hard wired inside a portable DAP. I can say this has made a difference and again my guess is that it probably doesn’t come into play when using other digital out sources such as USB, AES or Coaxial
Also during this burn in time, John at Cayin was able to deliver to me a digital copy of the manual, and sure enough some of the things I did were the reasons the PC could not be seen (did NOT connect to the right USB input, the one above the LAN connection is digital out only, the digital IN is the USB-3 Stack “B” input in the middle of the other connections, and while USB-3 its not marked with the SS mark, and why I did not initially chose to use it)
Connecting to that connector, the PC could see the IDAP-8’s storage media, and I could edit or move files to it. USER ERROR.
With the latest 1.6 FW from Cayin for the IDAP-8 all of the SD card issues seem to have resolved.
OK how does it work and sound?
The IDAP-8 is exactly what I wanted.
It connects seamlessly to my external R2R DAC, and connects to a friends AKM 4493 based DAC without issues. (I might try a AKM 4499 DAC later)
The IDAP-8's sound is a product of the DAC and AMP its connected to, but with all the above I’ve documented, it can affect overall sound quality.
I no longer have access to other desktop players. So I can only go from memory, but can say it is on par with and from my memory slightly better than other players I have demo’d
The thing that sets this desktop player apart is the ability to use alternate player SW. As I write this I have been listening to a playlist of Dolby Atmos based music files from Amazon Music, or my own playlists from Neutron Player
I mostly use the Neutron Player and enjoy using it on the IDAP-8
The sound with Neutron is full, clear and clean, with an excellent sound stage both depth and width, and the on screen experience with the IDAP-8 is very good.
Neutron is very flexible and feeds my Pegasus DAC nicely, and I have more control over items, and the Parametric EQ can be used ahead of the DAC to shape the sound going into the DAC. Thank You Cayin for allowing the use of alternative player SW as it does give this device a leg up vs, the other desktop players.
I no longer use Tidal but see others who have said it plays without issues. Can’t comment about Qobuz as I also do not use this but know this is of concern for many on both the N7 and N30LE forums.
I’m able to once again have a known desktop player output that now allows me to continue with trying new tubes and be able to know the change is the tube in the sound chain, not that it’s the player or SW influencing the sound I hear.
The notes I made while using the N7 as my input into the AMP are pretty much the same now with the IDAP-8, with all the changes that have been made.
The angled screen of the IDAP-8 is actually quite usable as it does allow for a slightly larger display vs the IDAP-6. For both Amazon Music and Neutron it allows for a less cramped screen. The viewing angle is good and it helps to cancel glare and reflections.
The touch functions on the IDAP-8 are also a little more snappier and responsive than I remember with the IDAP-6
The ONLY gripe I have now, is that the power button is really a standby button.
When you “turn off” the IDAP-8, and the Android SW shuts down, the light that encircles the switch, now flashes every 1-2 seconds and its BRIGHT, TOO BRIGHT, and its distracting.
It forces me to reach around each time and actually turn OFF the IDAP-8 from the actual power switch on the back, which if I don’t turn it back on at least once a week it seems to NOT allow the clock in the OS to update, and I’ve had to go in and update the clock in settings for Android so that both the browser and Amazon Music can properly connect as it can be as much as 30min out of sync.
Hoping a setting can be made available to either DIM the light or maybe slow the flashing to be user settable or be set to something like once every 15-30 seconds.
Would I suggest to someone get the IDAP-8?
Well if your requirements are similar to mine, my answer is yes.
If their different, than I would still suggest take a listen and see if it does meet your needs.
I’ve read people ask Andy “Why did Cayin go with a 3 box design?”
On my part I’m glad they did as I did NOT want to get a player/streamer that had a DAC in it. It just allows me to get what I want and tailer the sound to what I want.
For me it gives me the flexibility I wanted. There are VERY FEW options for those of who do not want the integrated solution. But YMMV and this is IMO.
Hats Off to Cayin for recognizing this.
If you have made it this far THANK YOU for reading my thoughts
Sorry for the length of this “write up” and as I always like to say, ALL that I write above is IMO and YMMV
It's been about a month and half since I received in, what is one of the first IDAP-8's from Musicteck, and about a month since I put an initial post above. As promised there putting up my thoughts on the IDAP-8
Thanks to Andrew for all of the assistance in not only getting me the unit but working with me on some early "teething" pains we worked through with John from Cayin. (More Below)
I also want to mention this device was purchased (full retail), it was not sent to me and I have NOT received any compensation for my thoughts or what I have written, it is all IMO.
I can get a little too detailed and long winded in how I write, so…
The bottom line is I'm VERY happy with the device, as it checks all of the boxes of what I was looking for to feed my desktop stack (Cayin HA-3A Desktop Tube amp, using all NOS vintage tubes, connected to a Musician Pegasus R2R desktop DAC, via i2S connection)
For anyone considering this player 2 things, stick with it, "Burn In" is a real thing here, as "Sound Quality" improved with min 50 hours of burn in, AND the latest FW update made a huge difference with the onboard SW, but you may want to also try an 3rd party/external player SW as I found it to be much better (IMO)
Now the details….
I wanted to get a desktop player to replace the portable DAP that was connected to my desktop stack (was using a Cayin N-7 1 bit all to DSD portable player, via installed Neutron Player software and connected to the all digital I2S connection of my Pegasus DAC) as making sure the battery was charged on the DAP, often cut into the total listening time, but the sound was so good out of this output, it set a pretty high bar.
How did I get here?
Been more of a portable user having sold all of my home gear years ago, and thought I’d just settle when not traveling on a home setup that included the Cayin C9 amp I could output the Lotoo and now Cayin DAPs into. (The C9 started me down the road of using Cayin HW, and yes there is a differnece between the C9 and a proper dekstop amp, but it is very personal and IMO here. Posted thoughts on the difference in the C9 forum)
I've slowly come to enjoy various hardware from Cayin due to their sound tuning, usability and for me, value, moving from previous go to companies like Lotoo and others.
At last year's Can Jam Sothern California, went in thinking I'd be looking at a new portable DAP (L&P R2R or N30LE with AKM), and maybe some cables or new IEM's,
Nope, I ended up purchasing new over the ears headphone
Having listened to the Meze Elite previously, just kept coming across it at various tables, coupled with some of the nicest tube amps at the show and not hearing anything I liked more than my current IEM’s decided to finally upgrade my over the ears and decided to purchase the Elites, and via this search in turn at Can Jam ended up auditioning various desktop tube amps. (Resisted buying a desktop tube amp to date knowing I'd go fully down the rabbit hole of tube rolling, but gave in after Can Jam) When I got the Elites home realized they absolutely benefited from a little more power than the PAW600 or N8ii (that I had at the time) provided, and just after Can Jam, decided it was time to buy a amp and decided on a Tube Amp. Looking at the costs of available tubes, decided on the HA-3A as it gave me the broadest range of tubes that would not end up costing me more than amp itself (while I would have loved to get a 300B based amp, but the cost of those tubes was enough to turn me away – I like to think my budget for audio gear is good, but NOT that good. Some of the 300B Tubes will set you back $5K to $10K)
How this all came about and decided on the HA-3A over a Feliks amp I was considering is a whole other story, and for another place (Forum) and time. The fact I bought a Cayin is more of what was available, the cost of tube rolling with respective amps, and what was in my price range and NOT that I wanted Cayin as a FYI. This ended up being a bonus as the Cayin HA-3A amp has been one of the better investments I've made this past year.
After Can Jam, and for almost half a year after, I used a Cayin N7 directly into the HA-3A via a 4.4mm balanced to dual 3 pin XLR connector, but made the mistake of borrowing an external DAC, and then via the information on both the HA-3A and Meze Elite Forum, ended up with the Pegasus DAC, and now that I was essentially bypassing some of the DAC section on the N7 thought about just getting a desktop player.
Borrowing/demoing various players, they either left me wanting for sound or functionality (Many of the on board DAC's implementations were not to my liking) or the player SW was not as customizable as I wanted.
I came up with a short list of "requirements" from these auditions for a desktop player. These were:
- On board storage of 1TB min with ability for expansion to allow a local library of FLAC and high bitrate MP3s or high bit/high res offline streaming files
- i2S connection. I liked the idea of the digital connection which also passed the clock signals to the DAC for proper timing.
- Though I have very few DSD files, ability to support up to DSD512 and if possible direct 1bit sound files natively.
- Ability to run output from a computer via at min USB-3.x (SS or Super Speed rating) interface for streaming apps as needed
- Ability to bypass the local DAC if one was onboard
- Both gigabit wired and 802.11AC wireless LAN connections with the ability to turn off the wireless
(as I know and have experienced the wireless adding RF “noise” to the playback on either the tube amp or external DAC, abilty to kill it and Bluetooh was a must)
- Optional: Ability to load apps from either Apple or Google Play Stores and run apps locally
- Optional: Ability to run and configure locally Neutron or similar layer SW and NOT just use the local player SW as sent out.
(These last two points while high on my list I made optional else it would have cut out almost every desktop player available)
One of the closest players I came across to meet my criteria was when I was able to borrow another users IDAP-6 and it came close, but still had some areas I thought could be improved on.
Was about to pull the trigger on the Eversolo DMP-8 as while it did NOT meet all of the above, and I'd probably have to stop using the Pegasus R2R DAC I've come to enjoy, as a direct connect to the Pegasus using an older Eversolo product was not as good as using the onboard DAC, and the DMP-8 did not look to change this connection.
I then saw the announcement from Andy about the 8-8-8 stack with the new IDAP-8 with many of the improvements over the IDAP-6 I was looking for and held off.
Thank You's to those who were able to listen to, use and/or evaluate the new Cayin 8-8-8 stack and the IDAP-8 and posted impressions. It prompted me to look for "now on sale" announcements for the IDAP-8 from the usual companies I like to work with. Musicteck was one of the first to post the "now offering Pre-Order" for the IDAP-8 and jumped in with a leap of faith it would do what I wanted.
Shortly after purchase got the shipping confirmation from Musicteck and quickly realized my IDAP-8 was coming directly from Cayin in China.
When it arrived I noticed there was no user guides, manuals or warranty info in the box. It was literally the IDAP-8 nicely packed and properly sealed up and the accessories only
A quick email to Andrew who reached out on my behalf to Cayin and was told the English guide, manual and warranty card were not ready and the device was shipped without it, and that I would receive all of that once available/shortly.
(NOTE: Had I had the manual there were some words in there that would have prevented some of the issues I’ll write about below. Much of this is admitted user error, but having a manual would have helped not run into these issues)
Again Thank You Andrew (Musicteck) and John (Cayin) for working with me to get over these issues. Before these issues were resolved, I was already discussing with Andrew what I would need to do, to return the device. Luckily I have NOT had to do this.
Was able to figure out both the HW and the settings of the player SW without the manual and started using the player. The SW because of the consistency with Cayin’s other players
Added in a 2TB SSD drive to the drive bay on the IDAP-8 and figured out in the SW where I needed to format the drive for use with the players SW (With audio players I've found it always a good practice to have your player format the storage media to prevent issues later down the road with file read/writes).
Then I ran into some issues of the device being able to see MicroSD cards from the N7 and futzing with the settings, got the player to see the MicroSD card, but it could NOT see the files on the card stating the format was wrong, preventing me from being able to move the files onto the onboard drive. Using the connection to the SS (Super Speed) marked USB port above the LAN connection, the IDAP could NOT see the PC and visa versa. The short term fix was remove the SSD drive, and luckily the IDAP-8 used exFAT to format the drive, so was able to just do a drive to drive transfer on my PC from the MicroSD card to the SSD drive.
That done, and the drive added back into the iDAP-8 was finally in business as the player could now see the files on the internal SSD drive (though it still could NOT see the PC or the MicroSD card)
Quickly found the sound quality with the Cayin/Hiby SW was not the same as the N7. Stumbling through the settings icon, and triple checked my settings on both the Cayin and HIby SW, while there was “some” improvement, still NOT to the level I expected or heard from the N7 portable player.
Quickly pivoted to opening the Google Play Store and loaded Neutron Player.
It was able to see both the MicroSD card and the internal SSD drive (OK there seems to be a bug in the Cayin/Hiby SW) but even Neutron was having some issues with the MicroSD card. So could not use the MicroSD card, but no issues from the internal SSD drive, so OK thought there is probably a FW update coming.
Listening to my files on both the N7 using the Neutron Player, and the IDAP-8 back to back into my desktop stack (both using the I2S connection) there was still a difference in sound.
Quick Emails to Andrew with my findings above, a question if new FW was coming soon before the 30 day return timing and WHEN a manual might be coming as perhaps I did not configure something correctly. He again reached out to Cayin, and return email from John with questions came quickly. They both worked with me through these initial days and setup. More than I’ve seen other companies do. Kudo’s to both.
We all decided a min of 25 hours and preferably 50 hours of burn in to see if that made a difference.
I let the player play in a loop into my external DAC with a dummy load connected to its output to mimic the AMP/Headphone combo. (Did not want to have a tube amp run unattended none stop)
24/25 hours, no changes in sound quality.
50 hours, a noticeable difference. For bass/sub bass it was now starting to come around, and the highs started to also extend a little.
I let it continue to burn in and around 80 hours, the sound was much closer to the N7 with the Cayin/Hiby SW. With the Neutron SW it was also almost equal to the N7
Went into Neutron’s settings and started playing with various settings for the HW like resampling/oversampling, 64bit processing etc, and now the IDAP-8 was as good as the N7 or maybe a little better (settings are different between the 2 players)
My guess with the I2S connection its all about the clock timing that gets passed to the internal DAC vs. having everything hard wired inside a portable DAP. I can say this has made a difference and again my guess is that it probably doesn’t come into play when using other digital out sources such as USB, AES or Coaxial
Also during this burn in time, John at Cayin was able to deliver to me a digital copy of the manual, and sure enough some of the things I did were the reasons the PC could not be seen (did NOT connect to the right USB input, the one above the LAN connection is digital out only, the digital IN is the USB-3 Stack “B” input in the middle of the other connections, and while USB-3 its not marked with the SS mark, and why I did not initially chose to use it)
Connecting to that connector, the PC could see the IDAP-8’s storage media, and I could edit or move files to it. USER ERROR.
With the latest 1.6 FW from Cayin for the IDAP-8 all of the SD card issues seem to have resolved.
OK how does it work and sound?
The IDAP-8 is exactly what I wanted.
It connects seamlessly to my external R2R DAC, and connects to a friends AKM 4493 based DAC without issues. (I might try a AKM 4499 DAC later)
The IDAP-8's sound is a product of the DAC and AMP its connected to, but with all the above I’ve documented, it can affect overall sound quality.
I no longer have access to other desktop players. So I can only go from memory, but can say it is on par with and from my memory slightly better than other players I have demo’d
The thing that sets this desktop player apart is the ability to use alternate player SW. As I write this I have been listening to a playlist of Dolby Atmos based music files from Amazon Music, or my own playlists from Neutron Player
I mostly use the Neutron Player and enjoy using it on the IDAP-8
The sound with Neutron is full, clear and clean, with an excellent sound stage both depth and width, and the on screen experience with the IDAP-8 is very good.
Neutron is very flexible and feeds my Pegasus DAC nicely, and I have more control over items, and the Parametric EQ can be used ahead of the DAC to shape the sound going into the DAC. Thank You Cayin for allowing the use of alternative player SW as it does give this device a leg up vs, the other desktop players.
I no longer use Tidal but see others who have said it plays without issues. Can’t comment about Qobuz as I also do not use this but know this is of concern for many on both the N7 and N30LE forums.
I’m able to once again have a known desktop player output that now allows me to continue with trying new tubes and be able to know the change is the tube in the sound chain, not that it’s the player or SW influencing the sound I hear.
The notes I made while using the N7 as my input into the AMP are pretty much the same now with the IDAP-8, with all the changes that have been made.
The angled screen of the IDAP-8 is actually quite usable as it does allow for a slightly larger display vs the IDAP-6. For both Amazon Music and Neutron it allows for a less cramped screen. The viewing angle is good and it helps to cancel glare and reflections.
The touch functions on the IDAP-8 are also a little more snappier and responsive than I remember with the IDAP-6
The ONLY gripe I have now, is that the power button is really a standby button.
When you “turn off” the IDAP-8, and the Android SW shuts down, the light that encircles the switch, now flashes every 1-2 seconds and its BRIGHT, TOO BRIGHT, and its distracting.
It forces me to reach around each time and actually turn OFF the IDAP-8 from the actual power switch on the back, which if I don’t turn it back on at least once a week it seems to NOT allow the clock in the OS to update, and I’ve had to go in and update the clock in settings for Android so that both the browser and Amazon Music can properly connect as it can be as much as 30min out of sync.
Hoping a setting can be made available to either DIM the light or maybe slow the flashing to be user settable or be set to something like once every 15-30 seconds.
Would I suggest to someone get the IDAP-8?
Well if your requirements are similar to mine, my answer is yes.
If their different, than I would still suggest take a listen and see if it does meet your needs.
I’ve read people ask Andy “Why did Cayin go with a 3 box design?”
On my part I’m glad they did as I did NOT want to get a player/streamer that had a DAC in it. It just allows me to get what I want and tailer the sound to what I want.
For me it gives me the flexibility I wanted. There are VERY FEW options for those of who do not want the integrated solution. But YMMV and this is IMO.
Hats Off to Cayin for recognizing this.
If you have made it this far THANK YOU for reading my thoughts
Sorry for the length of this “write up” and as I always like to say, ALL that I write above is IMO and YMMV
Users who are viewing this thread
